Looking to be a Keyholder

pestulens

Personally, I can let the red pill analogy slide, since a lot of different groups have used it for a lot of different reasons. There is even a fairly convincing argument that it was originally intended as a metaphor for HRT.

On the other hand, the clown world meem is a huge red flag in my expereance.

MissBlossom

pestulens On the other hand, the clown world meem is a huge red flag in my expereance.

I'm the woman your gender studies teacher warned you about! lol

youdontknowme

pestulens There is even a fairly convincing argument that it was originally intended as a metaphor for HRT.

The red pill in the movie, absolutely. Lots of themes are making sense as trans allegories ever since the Wachowskis came out.

pestulens Personally, I can let the red pill analogy slide, since a lot of different groups have used it for a lot of different reasons.

What has me concerned is that it comes from a male who is very aggressively seeking partners, and used in a somewhat derogatory manner, which are hallmarks of incel redpills. The fact that it is in a discussion on the Matrix movies is mildly mitigating.

MissBlossom Personally, I think it's adorable that so many people think they've discovered something new when they've really just learned what all of their ancestors from before the sixties just considered common sense.

I do not mind men taking a leading role in relationships (though I believe that has to be a consensual choice by the whole couple). What I find objectionable about redpill incels is that idea that a woman would owe them sexual favors for some basic niceness, but that is a matter for a different topic.

MissBlossom

youdontknowme What I find objectionable about redpill incels is that idea that a woman would owe them sexual favors for some basic niceness, but that is a matter for a different topic.

That idea is not just objectionable. It is vulgar and evil.

And neither that idea nor incels has much to do with the red pill. I think the broader culture has a tendency to smoosh things together that it doesn't like so that the stink of the truly awful will rub off on the true but subversive and culturally unacceptable. Do your own research.

youdontknowme

MissBlossom That idea is certainly at the center of the redpill/incel overlap. That has little to do with the fact that there are non-redpill incels, or the use of "redpill" by non-incel communities. I did have a look into redpill incel communities, mostly when I came across NoFap in my quest to use orgasm denial to make sexual pleasure feel more special, and the association of that community with redpill incels made me rather uncomfortable. So I hope you understand that when a person who seems rather desperate for a partner uses "bluepill" derogatorily, it sets off some red flags for me.

MissBlossom

youdontknowme
I don't think Xander was being derogatory, just descriptive and humorous.

Those of us (and I'm with you on this) who pretend the sequels don't exist choose a pleasant fantasy over an unpleasant reality, which is exactly what the blue pill offered Neo.

As for the rest, I recommend the Bible over the red pill anyway.

youdontknowme

MissBlossom You are making a good point there. While I am still not completely convinced, I realize that I am not affording him the same benefit of doubt I give to others. Your explanation makes sense, and I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

And honestly, pretending the sequels don't exist is just a big joke to me.

Xander

MissBlossom Yea, I was just joking that he was choosing to ignore the sequels. It sucks that mentioning the red and blue pills in a discussion about the Matrix movies results in the incel/MGTOW connotation. I'm far from that though.

Milord

youdontknowme

At a certain point there will be an explanation for people uneducated on this trends like me ?
I know matrix, but not incel and the red blue pill is outside my ability to grasp

Kudos on @MissBlossom

MissBlossom

Milord
The term "red pill" has been appropriated as a metaphor for common relationship realities that do not match the dominant narrative in post feminist Western cultures. The idea is that you are breaking out of the matrix and facing the truth about men and women.

There is no universal and complete definition, but here is a representative sample.

https://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/wiki/index/tableofcontents/axioms/

youdontknowme

Milord Incel = involuntarily celibate. People who blame outside factors for their poorly-going love life. For them, the "red pill truth" often boils down to the idea that women use the prospect of sex to manipulate men, which in its most extreme form boils down to men expecting sex as payment for any form of affection or kindness.

Milord

MissBlossom
So the list you provided is what a red pill think it is true?
Like, this is the underlying truth even if it’s not politically correct?
And the red pills incel own this truth?

youdontknowme

I used to be very bad with girls when I was younger. Age improved me really very much tbh. But know what? I never ever in my life made my inability to seduce a girl as a reason to hate them.
I always thought (rightly) that the problem was in me, not in them. For me incels are really pathetic, and not because they can’t have a woman

Sin

youdontknowme For them, the "red pill truth" often boils down to the idea that women use the prospect of sex to manipulate men

OMG what we would never do that! 😅

MissBlossom

Milord
Incels are their own strange thing. From what I can gather (and I haven't tried very much) they tend towards despair.

There's more than you probably want to read at https://incels.wiki/w/Main_Page

youdontknowme

Milord The common thread about people calling themselves redpills is that they believe their minority view is a truth that the masses are not aware of. I will not be the judge of what is insight and what is delusion, as a lot of that is really more a matter of faith and values than of pure facts, or observations about a specific society that may not transfer well into other social circles. That what they proclaim as true deviates from what is widely considered to be "politically correct" is a pretty defining characteristic though, as the very idea of the red pill in the Matrix movie (or movie series, depending on how you prefer to look at it) is that of a small group of enlightened and aware people fighting against the system that keeps the masses in the dark, and that many people would not be able to handle that truth.

Kaja

Sin I love sex too much to do that 😃.

Milord

Sin noooooo

I'm completely sure you weakling will never dare to do anything against the patriarchy! Never

Yeah, right.

😂

Disclaimer: I'm joking. Of course we are manipulated by women. The wise ones just acknowledge it.

youdontknowme

Sin Sure there is the use of sexual allure to gain someone's favor, and the possibility of denying a partner sex as a negotiation tool. That is the kernal of truth that underlies all the best and most insidious lies.

But incel redpill logic goes a few steps further - in the worst case, they pretend that every time they find a woman attractive, it is due to her promising them some form sexual favor, and if that does not manifest itself, that promise was a lie and she betrayed him. And that belief breeds pretty vile individuals.

Milord

Kaja someone could say that sex is a way to manipulate men

Probably rightly so.

MissBlossom

Milord someone could say that sex is a way to manipulate men

Yes, but doing so is very harmful to a relationship.

As I said before:

MissBlossom Unfortunately, using this power is like dropping an a-bomb. You may win the battle but there's a lot of collateral damage.

If you keep doing it, you will make the world you share uninhabitable.

Kaja

Milord I know it. But it will destroy the relationship. And I love sex too much to denial it to myself 😀.
You know I will not stop eating cakes like a punishment of my bf.

Milord

MissBlossom

Maybe my words came from the fact that my relationship is wonderful.

My wife tries to manipulate me. He never do it with ill intent. Never. But she does, and it’s ok for me. Often it’s a game we both play, sometimes I set my boundaries and she understands, and sometimes she is successful.
I can understand that this is not what a lot of people even call manipulation, but part of woman power (cit @Ines ) is manipulative in nature. It’s ok, you are better than us at this game.

That was really difficult to explain. I hope I had success, in case ask

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