Chastity belt under wedding dress

Ines

I am going to use this thread because in the forum we tend to always use the same ones, and there are many and very interesting ones.
My response is geared towards the conversation between @Jonas @Jenna and @Susan , about what will happen to the key on the wedding day.
@Jonas points out that the key has to be given to @Susan , I think it's not too important, and what is more, before the other way around, it seems a bit strange to me.
As I always say here I opine with my perspective and opinion, not from the top of an immutable truth.
First of all I consider that a husband and a boyfriend has, at least, the right to be heard about the chastity belt of his future wife. In my opinion it is very "suspicious" that a girl after wearing the belt during her bachelorhood, comes the first opportunity to get rid of it, and roundly refuses to continue wearing it. I can understand that, depending on her experiences, she would prefer not to wear it, but if her husband thinks otherwise, the refusal seems very suspicious to me. She is used to it and besides, if there are daughters and the idea is that they will use the belt when they reach the age when they have to use it, it is not very logical that in that family the wife refuses to use it. Another thing is that the conditions of use are negotiated, since it cannot be the same for a single girl as for a married one, but to refuse it flatly seems wrong to me.

But even if the girl refuses to use the belt after the wedding, it seems strange to me that the keys are given to the girl. It seems more natural to me to give them to the husband, for me anything else would be disrespectful. My parents, for example, would never give me the keys, I am not a suitable interlocutor for it, to my husband yes, even if they knew that the belt was going to be opened and he was not going to use it one more minute.

In any case, @Jenna and her nieces are newcomers, and having no tradition, there are many things they have to think about, many ideas will evolve and they have to find their own way.

Andrew

Ines Interesting recapitulation of your views on the use of chastity belts. 🙂

In my opinion, the future husband should of course have the right to express his opinion about the wearing of the belt by his future wife, but nothing more. It should always be her own decision whether she wants to wear a belt or not. I don't see anything suspicious about a girl wanting to stop wearing a belt either. She might just get tired of it. The argument of a woman's failure to comply with her husband's will does not appeal to me at all. The issue of handing over the key to the husband is not very important in my opinion, but as a rule, the key should be given to the bride, unless she herself wants the groom to get it.

Jonas

Ines

The discussion is founded on a story that contradicts itself and was discussed a month ago to a different resolution. It is unclear who getting the key at this point, and in my view it's a waste of my time discussing this particular situation.

In general terms... You are entirely free to choose to submit to your husband's will forever @Ines. I hope you choose well and that you gain every happiness in the world.

However, slowly transforming a chastity agreement into long term submission is boil-the-frog abuse and I think everyone reading the forum should be made aware of this type of abuse and of the creeping, deceptive, motivations behind it.

Jonas

Bryan I think you are speaking to issues a bit beyond this topic

The discussion was moved by the mod:

Ines I am going to use this thread because in the forum we tend to always use the same ones, and there are many and very interesting ones.

I wrote all these points earlier, so have nothing to add:

Bryan One can debate the the incrementalism that has lead some folks to more equipment and restrictions, but on the wedding day the "frog" is already pretty well boiled

Bryan Turning over the keys is largely symbolic at that point and the wearing of the belt after marriage should already have been discussed

Bryan Some women prefer to defer to their spouses in such matters and I think that should be respected.

Bryan If a husband plans to add things without his wife's acquiescence, or not honor what was agreed, then those issues of trust seem to go far beyond any issues with the belt itself.

Kaja

Ines I think that you have noz true at any point. I think the opposite.

Ines

Andrew

It is how it is managed in my family, and there is no problemt. It may not be valid for everyone, but it works for us.
I, and I am a woman, I can understand that the girl is tired, but it does not seem sufficient excuse if the husband wants her to continue using it. She may not be very enthusiastic, or she may negotiate terms, but I think that refusing outright is a bad start. It seems strange to me, and I am also a girl.
Regarding the key... I think it is a mistake not to give it to the husband-husband, especially because you never know how the situation may evolve and even if at first he allows her not to use it, maybe later she will have to use it again.

Andrew

Ines even if at first he allows her not to use it, maybe later she will have to use it again

Will the woman have anything to say in this relationship? Your text looks like a description of an obvious coercion...

Angelina

Ines I can understand that the girl is tired, but it does not seem sufficient excuse if the husband wants her to continue using it.

i see a mistake in thinking, if both partners disagree, i don't think it is the wife's job to find excuses not to wear a belt, but the husband should find good reasons for the wife to continue wearing it.

Bryan Turning over the keys is largely symbolic at that point and the wearing of the belt after marriage should already have been discussed thoroughly

Bryan If a husband plans to add things without his wife's acquiescence, or not honor what was agreed, then those issues of trust seem to go far beyond any issues with the belt itself.

right, we should be clear that we are talking about weddings here, lifelong connections. before there is the yes word, such topics should of course be clarified.

Ines

I understand your point, but I think you are very cautious.

Jonas However, slowly transforming a chastity agreement into long term submission

I think is not related with submission.

Jonas You are entirely free to choose to submit to your husband's will forever

It is not about this, @Jonas, not in my case, it is only about chastity belts, it is not related with submission, but with right behaviour.
Wifes and husband are equally in most of issues, but in this, husband has a bit more of authority.

Kaja

Jonas True point about abuse. I feel the same

Ines

Andrew Will the woman have anything to say in this relationship? Your text looks like a description of an obvious coercion...

No! Woman has plenty of things to say, but I think that a good wife IN THIS SUBJECT have to be tending to listen to her husband IF HE IS A GOOD MAN.
If he is an abuser, divorce, jail... everything is lenient for a man that misstreat his wife. He is a coward for say the least.

Jonas

Ines husband has a bit more of authority.

You are submitting to an authority.

Ines I understand your point, but I think you are very cautious.

The keyholder first came here to try to get advice on ENFORCED CHASTITY!! Another forum user found a D-rings ready for future bands already on their belt!! Others report family pressure to conform or pressure via accommodation. Even the idea of blocking masturbation itself can set the wearer up for failure, guilt, capture and further bondage.

Andrew

Ines good wife IN THIS SUBJECT have to be tending to listen to her husband IF HE IS A GOOD MAN

But even a good husband can have expectations that are inconsistent with his wife's expectations of wearing a belt. If only the husband decides it, the wife will force herself to do something she does not want to do.

Ines

Jonas You are submitting to an authority.

In this subject, not in general, @Jonas . Capital letters were to emphasize the strong point of my statement. Please, sorry if you feel it as violence, it was not my intention.

Jonas Another forum user found a D-rings ready for future bands already on their belt!! Others report family pressure to conform or pressure via accommodation. Even the idea of blocking masturbation itself can set the wearer up for failure, guilt, capture and further bondage.

I think that your approach and mine are very different, you see it very negatively.
Even if I share your rejection against forced using, rest of usage is not the same.

Jonas

Ines In this subject, not in general, @Jonas . Capital letters were to emphasize the strong point of my statement. Please, sorry if you feel it as violence, it was not my intention.

No problem at all, I used caps in the same way in my message. Thank you very much for making it clear though.

Ines I think that your approach and mine are very different, you see it very negatively.
Even if I share your rejection against forced using, rest of usage is not the same.

Boiling the frog... the slow creeping addition of extra "equipment" ...is a devious way of achieving enforced chastity while making it feel to the wearer that only small incremental changes are being made.

I think if presented with a full set of chastity bondage and a contract to obey their husbands sexually at the outset most modern women would think the entire plan was nuts.

Now, if individuals want this, or any part of this, for themselves great, fine okay. But consent needs to be fully informed. If thigh bands are already waiting in the wings, if the key is actually going to go to the husband, if there's a chastity bra in the mail, if there's physical punishment planned, these secret changes completely break informed consent.

They make chastity a nasty and controlling trick, rather than a bold personal choice.

Bryan

Jonas I think you are speaking to issues a bit beyond this topic. One can debate the the incrementalism that has lead some folks to more equipment and restrictions, but on the wedding day the "frog" is already pretty well boiled. Turning over the keys is largely symbolic at that point and the wearing of the belt after marriage should already have been discussed thoroughly. Some women prefer to defer to their spouses in such matters and I think that should be respected. If she will remain in her belt after marriage that could mean getting the keys and then giving them to her husband or that could mean she wishes to never have the keys and have them passed directly to her husband. If a husband plans to add things without his wife's acquiescence, or not honor what was agreed, then those issues of trust seem to go far beyond any issues with the belt itself.

Ines

Angelina i see a mistake in thinking, if both partners disagree, i don't think it is the wife's job to find excuses not to wear a belt, but the husband should find good reasons for the wife to continue wearing it.

I see it as very suspicious if she rejects absolutely.

Bryan Turning over the keys is largely symbolic at that point and the wearing of the belt after marriage should already have been discussed thoroughly.

I think so.

Bryan husband plans to add things without his wife's acquiescence, or not honor what was agreed, then those issues of trust seem to go far beyond any issues with the belt itself.

Agree too.

Jonas Boiling the frog... the slow creeping addition of extra "equipment" ...is a devious way of achieving enforced chastity while making it feel to the wearer that only small incremental changes are being made.

I half agree with you.
On the one hand, I see to a certain extent normal that keyholders want to increase security. As you can see, this always happens in families where there is no knowledge or tradition. In the rest, either the belt is used with accessories in a very specific way, as in my family, or no accessory is used or will be used, as in the case of @Laura or Megan.
In families where there is no tradition, the potential of the belts is not known, or a very low goal is set at the beginning because there are doubts, or the accessories are simply unknown.
So far I understand that a responsible keyholder who is learning wants to improve his girl's belt.

Then comes the second part... these improvements must always be made by consensus with us, and if conditions have to be discussed, they are discussed. The fait accompli policy is totally unacceptable.

youdontknowme

Bryan Some women prefer to defer to their spouses in such matters and I think that should be respected. If she will remain in her belt after marriage that could mean getting the keys and then giving them to her husband or that could mean she wishes to never have the keys and have them passed directly to her husband.

Absolutely that option should be there, but if she already has expressed to her parents that she will not be a belted wife, offering the keys to her groom before offering them to her seems like a transgression. Especially considering the agreement she consented to was "wear the belt until marriage". With the wedding, marriage has begun, so anything to promote a continued lockup afterwards would go against the specific consent unless a new agreement had been made before the wedding.

Bryan

Angelina i don't think it is the wife's job to find excuses not to wear a belt

I expect for @Ines the belt's ability to prevent masturbation is one of its primary purposes and that doesn't necessarily change with marriage. I also think for many there is also a romantic element of being "protected" and possessed by your partner. In other words, I can imagine @Ines might be the one finding reasons to stay in hers :-)

Also my apologies for my somewhat gendered marriage terminology. I happily celebrate that marriage isn't necessarily between a husband and wife (although from your other comments I expect you will not have any disagreements with your future wife in terms of staying out of your belt ;-)

Angelina

Bryan

i think you misunderstood me. of course everyone who wants to wear the belt after the wedding should be allowed to do so, i am talking about situations where the two partners have different views about it. i think @Ines and i have clear views and we are on the same line with our partners.

Ines I see it as very suspicious if she rejects absolutely.

and i think that if the husband continues to demand it despite the wife's refusal, it shows me that he does not trust her.

Bryan

Ines I see it as very suspicious if she rejects absolutely.

Is your reasoning that both she and the relationship are already experienced with the belt (ie it would not be introducing anything new) and that the things it prevents are still important to a married woman?

Would it be "suspicious" because if she is comfortable wearing it then the main reason she would want it removed is so she can do those things (eg masturbation or sex with someone other than her husband)?

Jonas

Ines On the one hand, I see to a certain extent normal that keyholders want to increase security.
Ines Then comes the second part... these improvements must always be made by consensus with us

I understand where you are coming from, my trouble is still that this is exactly how boil-the-frog works: Incremental, non stressful, concessions over and over until complete submission is achieved:

If you're a wearing belt, then why not wear thigh bands - at night? ...During the day? ...All day?

If you're already wearing a belt and bands, why not wear a steel bra? ...To help you to be strong? ...To increase security? ...As a "punishment"?!

If you're locking your belt, why not send me a photo? Why not give me the keys? Hey, let's give the keys to your husband so that you can remain in bondage your whole life?

I agree that in good faith, arrangements can change, but if we're acting in good faith we have to be honest about the boil-the-frog issue. It allows a bad faith (controlling as opposed to loving) person to slowly manipulate a person into an extreme situation, one they'd never have accepted at the outset.

For non-traditional first-timers in a context of sexual freedom and equality being asked to wear a chastity belt seems to me to be a huge request. But if the belt, the bands, the bra and the contract for life-long sexual submission were laid out on the bed at the outset, people might get an idea of the sheer size of the potential request.

Another forum poster considered escalation inevitable, while for you the bra is a red line.. Well, here the BDSM community beats vanilla CB use...

In line with their Safe, Sane & Consensual mantra they ensure limits are discussed at the outset.

Renita

Ines I am going to use this thread because in the forum we tend to always use the same ones, and there are many and very interesting ones.

How about you? Are you getting close to the situation in the topic?

Ines

Renita How about you? Are you getting close to the situation in the topic?

What do you mean? My wedding?

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