Belting for nieces?

Avery

Sanity There's a difference between giving victims a safe space to talk about their experiences and giving tips to the perpetrators on how to most efficiently victimize their charges.............Jenna, HHelen and ShinyDiamond meanwhile are perpetrators, and shouldn't be encouraged to continue their abuse. Jenna specifically comes off as writing fantasy because her story just doesn't make sense............. Add to that the soft-porn like descriptions in some parts (like Sin pointed out), which read more like "horny male trying to get off of this" than somebody actually being stuck in some weird hypocritical fundamentalist worldview.

Boy, I wish I were smart enough to have written that.

Jenna

OK, I am not going to respond to each and every comment. But I have heard you all and also received very sage advice these last few days. I have erred in many ways but I am willing to admit them here and change course when needed. This is absolutely one such time. It is very clear now that my approach was flawed, especially in the case of N2. Coercion is not acceptable and I should not impose my views on others, especially with N2.

I have spoken to both girls and they are very relieved. N1 will be an adult next week, and she can make her own decisions. She has indicated an interest in at least considering trying a belt, naturally I am pleased. N2 can talk to her sister and then make her own choices. Both girls may choose separate paths, and both know my feelings.

Bottom line is this, I joined this group for feedback, and what I am hearing is what I needed to hear, even if it took me a little to hear the message.

Thank you all.

Joh

Jenna
Nice saying but nevertheless you posted lies and with that your whole story telling can't trusted.

You write a lot here about free speech but leave out the main accusation. In my eyes, this has not changed the situation.
As sad before the rules do not allow made-up stories and certainly not violence against minors.

Sanity

Jenna Bottom line is this, I joined this group for feedback, and what I am hearing is what I needed to hear, even if it took me a little to hear the message.

That is good to hear. I apologize for maybe being too harsh, but I also hope that it was part of the reason you are willing to reconsider.

James so what you're saying is suspicious suggests that you lack a basic understanding of statistics, to be honest.

No, it does not. Precisely because it is a niche topic which overlaps with fetishisation, and an extraordinary situation to be in, it's all the more important to engage with content critically. That doesn't mean disbelieving everything - it means giving people the benefit of the doubt, but not believing everything unconditionally.

James Also, if you happen to think members who views most disagree with are being given a 'safe space' here,

No, I said that I think that victims should be given a safe space to talk about their experiences, and that perpetrators shouldn't be encouraged. Two different things. Imagine another situation: people suffering from bullying are talking about their experience being bullied, and then other people join, asking for the best way to bully people. Of course you don't want to encourage the bullies by giving them tips on how to be better bullies, right? You want to convince them to stop bullying people. That isn't a free speech issue at all, so no clue why you're bringing this into the discussion. I was indeed pointing to the rules of this server, though, so you'll have to take it up with management if you want them to change those.

Angelina

Avery Perhaps it's a language problem. Censorship is when YOU are prevented from speaking. I'm not trying to shut you up, I'm simply telling her to ignore the opinion of someone only months older than her elder girl.

Avery Her nieces are both minors. Leave the minors alone.

that was not a grammatical error, because in the second post you do it again. i think as long as @Laura does not forbid me i can write with whom and what i want and @Jenna and others may decide for themselves if they want to read my opinion or not. i find these two posts unacceptable and disrespectful

Jenna There are certain people here that are negative, and I don't want to seed doubts.

there are negative and positive posts here, i think it is always important to look at the full spectrum of opinions.

Jenna The short term goal is to get them to each try the belts out.

not for me, i think the short term goal has to be that the family is not destroyed, what the solution looks like in part i don't know (yet)

Joh We mention it right to the beginning to put minors in belt is not welcome here.

i would rephrase it and add the words against their will

Joh So we have two problems here. We are against all violence against minors and only real stories are allowed.

because i know your reasons i agree with you on the second point, the first i don't see yet because the violence was only thought about but not implemented (also thanks to us)

James Certainly minors in belts remains a problem that we don't approve of really, but again, we have welcomed minor girls here who are belted, and so to say this is fantasy suggests that any woman who shows up here who is an adult who says they were belted as a minor should be chucked too. That'd be a long list.

right, the original post by misterpoll was started by a 15 year old and also here there are minors and also those who were underage (i was too for a long time), i think we should rather discuss how to deal with it sensitively instead of playing moral police. i say again that i prefer minors here in the forum than on a porn site.

Sanity

so you don't find it problematic if an underage girl writes what has to wear a belt against her will, but you would find it problematic if the corresponding mother (key holder) writes about how the "regime" prevails?

Jenna

I'm glad that you were able to take something away with you, even if the discussion was sometimes very difficult 🙂

James

Sanity As for how real those experiences are - there are certainly some stories which seem more plausible than others. Reading through older posts, it's quite suspicious how there's a general escalation.

There's several billion women in the world, and this is one of the few chastity discipline sites, so what you're saying is suspicious suggests that you lack a basic understanding of statistics, to be honest.

Also, if you happen to think members who views most disagree with are being given a 'safe space' here, that's only true if you happen to mean they aren't cursed at and banned from speaking, because everyone continues to candidly give their opinion. Which is good.

Lastly, if you don't happen to believe that one person can hold two seemingly contradictory views at the same time, may I suggest you spend more time out on the planet talking to, well, people?

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

It is important that everyone one is respectfully willing to engage here is allowed to...because otherwise you risk making the same error that people who try to restrict flows of information make - thinking you can control a narrative when there are plenty of other places on the net which will provide information, with far less empathy and nuance than this one.

Jen

James It is important that everyone one is respectfully willing to engage here is allowed to...

No I don't think so - not if they're writing fantasy about abuse of kids. I have no doubt it's fantasy.

James

Joh You write a lot here about free speech but leave out the main accusation. In my eyes, this has not changed the situation.

Which one is that, oh sage?

Joh

James Which one is that, oh sage?

You have all information on your hand. Find it out by yourself.
As @Sanity said:

Sanity victims should be given a safe space to talk about their experiences, and that perpetrators shouldn't be encouraged

I am not going to post it here. I will not teach them to prevent the mistake the next time.

Joh

James
Sorry, James. My mistake.
I used the wrong reference because Jenna and you have the same colour.

James

Sanity No, it does not. Precisely because it is a niche topic which overlaps with fetishisation, and an extraordinary situation to be in, it's all the more important to engage with content critically. That doesn't mean disbelieving everything - it means giving people the benefit of the doubt, but not believing everything unconditionally.

It does, when your post veers it saying some posts share similar aspects so therefore what's being said is fantasy. So I agree, we should all engage with the topic critically, but saying they are similarities = fantasy!! is not really critical, that's supposing things you've no basis to suppose.

Sanity You want to convince them to stop bullying people. That isn't a free speech issue at all, so no clue why you're bringing this into the discussion.

Sure. So how does that whole convincing thing happen if those people you want to convince aren't allowed to speak here?

Sanity

James Sure. So how does that whole convincing thing happen if those people you want to convince aren't allowed to speak here?

This is getting REALLY tedious. Never once have I said anything implying that I want to ban people from speaking, so stop pretending that I do. I can say it again, so that hopefully it'll reach you this time: I do not want to ban anybody from speaking. Got it now? I sure hope so, because otherwise, you'll continue to arguing against a strawman and misrepresenting my position, so I'm not going to defend myself from attacks on a position I'm not even holding to begin with. Also, I am not using all those "ifs" and "maybes" just for fun - it implies that I'm not sure about something. So stop pretending that I'm saying something ridiculous like "any and all similarities mean with absolute certainty that it's all fake."

Angelina so you don't find it problematic if an underage girl writes what has to wear a belt against her will, but you would find it problematic if the corresponding mother (key holder) writes about how the "regime" prevails?

I find it problematic if people encourage the belting of underage girls, yes. Not sure what's so hard to understand here. Since the bullying example apparently didn't work: a rape victim writes about her experiences. Nothing problematic. A rapist gushes about how much he likes rape and asks for tips how to be a better rapist. PROBLEMATIC. Hope this was more understandable.

Edit: and I know that you don't see enforced chastity as abuse, so we'll just have to agree to disagree there.

James

Joh gently taps head to desk

All good, I suppose.

Joh

Angelina that was not a grammatical error, because in the second post you do it again. i think as long as @Laura does not forbid me i can write with whom and what i want and @Jenna and others may decide for themselves if they want to read my opinion or not. i find these two posts unacceptable and disrespectful

I think what Avery meant is also my point of view about the past situation.

Angelina first i would talk to both of them, maybe you can convince them with your arguments, if not you can of course try to talk them into a deal, so that you give them something in return if they wear the belts.

At that state of the discussion Jennas situation was like a room with many closed doors and she didn't know which one would be the right one to be successful. More or less we tried to convince her not to go trough any door at all. Your comment, at this time, was as you would have open one door and showed the way which would be likely successful.
Averys comment was meant to prevent Jenna to go through that door. I also thought at that time this was not a good advice for the nieces but a good one for Jenna.

Avery

Angelina i find these two posts unacceptable and disrespectful

Why are you telling me this? What do I have to say to make you understand I think your opinion is ridiculous?

Angelina

Joh Jennas situation was like a room with many closed doors and she didn't know which one would be the right one to be successful.

I see it differently, I would generally agree if your view was correct in my opinion, but I see it differently. if you take your example, there was only one door open for Jenna and that was to get the nieces in the belt by force. I was just looking for a more humane alternative. it's like a teenager you want to forbid to drink alcohol, they do it secretly, so you have to find compromises.

Avery What do I have to say to make you understand I think your opinion is ridiculous?

exactly what you did now, you tell me personally, that's perfectly ok. i just find it disrespectful when you tell other users to ignore my opinion, let the other users decide for themselves.

Sanity Edit: and I know that you don't see enforced chastity as abuse, so we'll just have to agree to disagree there.

i understand what you mean and in many ways i agree with you. it's not true that i don't see it as abuse. it CAN be abuse, but i don't think it HAS to be abuse. that's the difference, also because there are many different forms of force. that's why I keep saying that we have to look at each case individually.

Dann Chastity devices are sold under the designation of sex toys, not therapeutic items.

I liked your post very much, but this statement makes me angry, whoever sees chastity belts only as a sex toy has understood nothing about chastity.

HHelen

Jenna I would be absolutely shocked if they weren't virgins, I just don't want to put them on the spot now with gynecological visits when I am already making this step

You are wrong, you must be sure.

Jenna

HHelen

Hello Helen, I was hoping to get you back into this conversation as I have a niece just beginning her chastity experience. I have read some of your posts, but not all, so forgive me if you have talked about this before. You identify yourself as a strict mother, with an adult daughter in chastity. I would like to ask how you were able to accomplish that? My niece is 18 and she has agreed to move forward with a chastity belt. We are moving slowly, to build trust and acceptance, per the advice of @Angelina and others. It is my hope that she she finds this experience to be beneficial in the long term, even if there are some short term struggles. I was hoping you could share tips on how you and your daughter have navigated belt wearing? Thank you.

Maija

Come on, this dumpster fire makes me want to leave the forum every time I see it

Joh

Maija Ignore it is the best way.

Christine

Jenna do you mind me asking which models?

MySteel.

Jenna

Christine

Christine, thank you for the MySteel recommendation. Belt just arrived today. First test went well.

Dann

Hey all. Made an account just to speak my mind on this.

Jenna, you’re way out of line when it comes to your nieces, and I’m sure you’ve been told this already but you are acting in a extremely narcissistic way, both refusing to compromise and putting yourself above them simply because you are older than your nieces.
Wisdom is not gained through age, it’s gained through experience. And the only wisdom your nieces are going to gain here is to never trust you when they have a legitimate sexual issue, like a late period or maybe even a boyfriend.

It’s a spiral of descent, which will ultimately leave them worse off physically and emotionally.

I suggest you need to stop what you’re doing and burn the damn things. This is not how a family dynamic should work, especially if they are not your own children.

With my own feelings over with, the legalities begin. Chastity devices are sold under the designation of sex toys, not therapeutic items. Encouraging a child to wear one would be a felony crime in California, possibly falling under many assorted sex crimes.

For the sake of the kids, stand down.

Avery

Dann Encouraging a child to wear one would be a felony crime in California, possibly falling under many assorted sex crimes.

Also, withholding money from them, as she has threatened, especially if the money is legally theirs that they inherited from their mother would be a crime. And everyone knows in what jurisdiction she lives.

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