Chastity contract

Avery

Sasha Of course none of it’s legally binding

Three people now have in quick succession said such contracts are not legally binding. I think this is probably a reflection of the fact that most people are here to indulge in some fantasy involving people who are not of age but...

Why would it be that I, of legal age, and my partner, of legal age, especially if we're married (we're not actually) being separated by 600 km (400 miles) for the summer can't draw up a contract with the help of a lawyer that each of us will remain celibate for the period of our separation and must wear belts when out of the house. The contract is not for something illegal, which would not be enforceable, and people draw up agreements like pre-nupts all the time that specify penalties if one partner is unfaithful to the other.

youdontknowme

Avery I mean, in the parent-offspring case often discussed here, the most obvious limit to enforcability is the power imbalance between the parties (and, if that offspring is a minor, their lack of legal age). However, even in communities where chastity agreements are commonly made between consenting adults, it is still generally assumed that such contracts are unenforcable. Probably because they represent an invasion into bodily autonomy that is widely considered unnecessary, and thus it is considered unethical to restrict a person's bodily autonomy like that. Just like a person cannot consent to slavery or mutilation, it could be argued that being made to wear locking devices infringes on a person's unalienable rights.

Of course, making a statement that it is not enforcable is all an assumption until it is tested in court, but what we can say is that

there is a significant chance such an agreement is not enforcable, and
the value of such an agreement is not defined by its enforcability.

pestulens

Avery Why would it be that I, of legal age, and my partner, of legal age, especially if we're married (we're not actually) being separated by 600 km (400 miles) for the summer can't draw up a contract with the help of a lawyer that each of us will remain celibate for the period of our separation and must wear belts when out of the house.

I am not certain whether or not you could draw up such a contract and have it enforced, you would need to ask a lawyer. What I was saying is that the kind of 'contract' we were discussing (informal negotiations of intent with no lawyers involved) would not be.

It is also worth noting that when a court enforces a contract, it is very rare for them to order what they call "specific performance", that is to say, order one party to fulfill their obligations under the contract. Usually, they just order the party who broke the contract to pay the other partie(s) for their economic damages.

Angelina

youdontknowme

you must also bear in mind that if a court had to review such a contract, any trust between the wearer and the key holder would already be destroyed. if a court were to declare such a contract legally binding, the wearer would no longer be a voluntary wearer and it would immediately constitute a criminal offence

Avery

pestulens I am not certain whether or not you could draw up such a contract and have it enforced, you would need to ask a lawyer. What I was saying is that the kind of 'contract' we were discussing (informal negotiations of intent with no lawyers involved) would not be.

We are in complete agreement. My point is that those few of us who are here to discuss and learn about real chastity related matters may very well be able to get a binding contract written and enforced.

pestulens Usually, they just order the party who broke the contract to pay the other partie(s) for their economic damages.

Bad news for me. My partner has almost no money.

Spork

Angelina the wearer would no longer be a voluntary wearer and it would immediately constitute a criminal offence

I'm curious as to exactly what criminal law in what country you think it would be breaking.

luhuixin

Avery not familiar with that term - swimwear?

Avery

luhuixin not familiar with that term - swimwear?

Yes.

luhuixin

Avery life guard?

Avery

luhuixin life guard?

No, coffee and pastry vendor.

Angelina

Spork

in our country, it would violate several articles of the constitution (physical integrity, free development of personality, etc.). it would also constitute coercion and bodily harm

but my main point is that if a court had to decide on this, then the wearer would no longer wear the belt voluntarily, otherwise there would be no need for a court

Sasha

Spork I'm curious as to exactly what criminal law in what country you think it would be breaking

In US law a prosecutor would have a bunch of ways they could pursue this.
Battery, unwanted physical contact
Assault, an act causing injury. The possible chaffing and bruising from wearing a belt.
Sexual assault or battery, should be obvious.
Child abuse, intentionally causing emotional or physical harm to a minor.
Extortion, not likely but depending on the circumstances a person attempting to force a belts usage in exchange for something could be charged.
False imprisonment, intentionally restricting a person’s freedom of movement. This can be either criminal or tort depending on circumstances.
All of these would carry enhanced penalties where it involves a minor, or if the belts forced usage was motivated by factors protected under hate crime laws.
There are probably a few more I missed, but the tldr, don’t attempt to force a chastity belt onto an unwilling person

George

Spork
In Europe it would almost certainly violate the European Human Rights Convention.

Now in the USA, it might be more complicated, as in the good old US Human rights have no legal status. OTOH the US has still a ton of funky laws about sex on the books, and chastity belts are primary seen by the mainstream as sex toys. Not sure if you realize that the Mann Act is till today enforced. And while it's not as nebulous as it was in its definition, if any state you touch would define your "chastity contract" illegal, your vacation just turned very problematic.

Spork

Angelina

in our country, it would violate several articles of the constitution (physical integrity, free development of personality, etc.). it would also constitute coercion and bodily harm

but my main point is that if a court had to decide on this, then the wearer would no longer wear the belt voluntarily, otherwise there would be no need for a court

In your country, suppose I signed a contract with a drug testing company where, in exchange for money, I agreed to be given an experimental vaccine and then deliberately infected with flu, and that I would not leave a suitable medical observation room for two weeks afterwards regardless of what happens. Suppose then that I decide I want to leave after one week, and there is no evidence I actually have the flu, because maybe the vaccine worked. What would the courts enforce?

luhuixin

Avery you serve in your swimsuit?

pestulens

Spork Not sure about German law, but in general I would expect the following result:

1st, you can leave even if you signed a contract saying you would not.
2nd, if they prevent you from leaving, they would be guilty of a crime (exactly what crime would vary by jurisdiction and what methods they use).
3rd, by leaving you may open yourself up to a lawsuit for breach of contract, they could recover economic damages including getting whatever they paid back as well as possibly the cost they incurred running the experiment.
4th, if you wind up exposing someone to the disease and they suffer serious injury or die, they or their next of kin might be able to sue you.
Finally, the experiment would never pass ethical scrutiny and might be illegal even with the contract. If that is the case, the contract would likely be ruled invalid.

Of course, by the time a court has looked at any of this the 2 weeks would be long past.

Angelina

Spork What would the courts enforce?

it would depend on whether it was medically ethically correct. the comparison to a private chastity belt contract, however, is very far-fetched in my opinion

Spork That's kind of my point. A lot of the posts in this thread are conflating morality and legality, and assuming that because something is immoral according to their viewpoint, it must be clearly and definitively illegal.

do we agree that it is illegal to put someone in a chastity belt against their will? If so, then the contract would automatically be illegal from the point at which a court has to deal with the review of the contract at all, because at that point the person is definitely wearing the belt against his/her will

youdontknowme Might be the high role that freedom of speech plays in your version of human and civil rights that makes it difficult to legislate (and enforce laws) against verbal threats,

which is also reasonable, an opinion is not a crime

Spork in that it is legal to escape prison there.

of course it's legal, it's just almost impossible to do it without committing other crimes 😂

Spork

pestulens Finally, the experiment would never pass ethical scrutiny and might be illegal even with the contract. If that is the case, the contract would likely be ruled invalid.

Interesting, such contracts are a routine part of the medical testing process in other parts of the EU and North America. I guess Germany is happy to benefit from vaccines (including the COVID vaccine the EU used) that were tested under such protocols whilst simultaneously only allowing other countries to develop them.

youdontknowme

Spork Somehow I do not believe they can legally prevent the participant from leaving in any civilized country, except maybe as part of a medical quarantine to prevent the spread of dangerous infections (which is a result of the contract, but an indirect one). Such language may still be in the contract to document an informed understanding that the infection makes the participant dangerous and subjects them to quarantine, and informed consent to be exposed to such pathogens. But the legal force of that contract clause would be preventing the participant from suing the experimenters over the necessary quarantine measures, not detainment for the sake of upholding the contract.

Now if there is a justification that a person is dangerous without a chastity belt, and a legal framework that allows for locking up a person for the benefit of society at large, say as part of a parole condition or something, that might be a different matter. But I do not think such a law would have an easy time getting enacted.

pestulens

Spork I looked it up and it appears that so-called "human challenge studies" are more common than I realized, despite being controversial. Also, as I said, I don't know much about how Germany specifically would handle things. I am neither a lawyer nor German, let alone a German lawyer.

Spork

Looking at this some more: Germany's notion of bodily autonomy is deeply unusual, in that it is legal to escape prison there. Most other countries' legal systems do not view things that way.

youdontknowme

I have taken a look at one British study done regarding Covid-19, and they had the following to say on quarantine:

7.1 What if I want to withdraw from the study?

You are free to withdraw from the study at any time you wish, however If you decide to withdraw your consent and “leave the study” during the quarantine phase, you will be very strongly encouraged to remain in the quarantine unit until you are no longer contagious. This is for both your safety and that of others whom you could infect as a contact. In this situation, we would continue to optionally offer you all procedures considered important for safety purposes by the study team but would stop any research procedures. This would include:

Regular vital signs

Medical review of any symptoms

Safety blood tests (but not research ones)

Rescue therapy (if being offered)

Remaining in the unit would therefore allow close follow-up by the study team and receipt of the rescue therapy. If you have to leave the quarantine unit before you have been formally discharged, you must self-isolate at home and avoid contact with anyone else until the discharge date (14 days after you were given the virus) as you will have been exposed to a strain of SARS-CoV-2 that is not widely circulating any more to avoid the possibility of causing an outbreak.

In the event that you decide to leave the unit early:

You will be strongly advised to self-isolate at home until you are no longer infectious and given advice about hand-washing and other infection control measures.

You should be collected from the quarantine unit in a private vehicle by a family member or friend so you do not expose the wider public to the virus. You should inform them of their risks of getting infected by you and we would recommend that you both wear a facemask for the journey home.

If you return home and there are other people in your household, they should be strongly advised to self-isolate for 14 days after you return home; this will be explained to you before you leave.

You may not be eligible to receive the rescue therapy (if being offered) if you leave quarantine before the planned date of treatment.

With your agreement, you will be contacted daily by the study staff (i.e. study doctor or nurse) via phone call to check on your health and to remind you of any self-isolation recommendations until the study doctors are satisfied that daily follow up can end. If possible, the study team may also visit you at home and perform swabs to check if you are still infectious.

The local health protection team may be informed of your return home and may contact you

Spork

youdontknowme The local health protection team may be informed of your return home and may contact you

That's the key bit, I think. That basically means they send the government goon squad around to lock you up.

youdontknowme

Spork Interesting way of phrasing it, but that is a very different legal justification from "contract said so". Also, situations in which people were forcibly and physically restrained to enforce government quarantine orders were not really seen at tgis stage of the pandemic in most places - only during the early outbreaks in China.

Avery

luhuixin you serve in your swimsuit?

Yup.

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