Age to begin

Angelina

dvoraks yes it is ok. some advice for the future?
Or advice for me? we no longer have to keep it a secret at home, so it can be more for us - wife.

well, i can only recommend what i recommend to almost everyone. talk talk talk. at the moment the belt is probably more of a game for your daughter. i'm curious if she just wants to play grown up or if there is a longer interest. if so, you should sit down together and your daughter has to learn what makes her happy. the important thing is that there is no pressure.

Sin Child abuse should always be called out.

of course, but the question is whether there really is child abuse here, or just a difference of opinion about what is right and wrong.

Joh

Angelina of course, but the question is whether there really is child abuse here, or just a difference of opinion about what is right and wrong.

What @shinydiamond77 is doing is to prevent her daughters free development. It is the same as she would follows a vow of silence and imposes that on her daughter too. The daughter would not learn to articulate herself properly.
It is obvious false what she wants.

youdontknowme

Angelina the important thing is that there is no pressure.

Angelina the question is whether there really is child abuse here, or just a difference of opinion about what is right and wrong.

You answered the question yourself, in a way. As soon as there is the slightest hint of pressure on a child below the age of consent, it becomes abusive.

Sin

Angelina the question is whether there really is child abuse here, or just a difference of opinion about what is right and wrong.

Nah. It's pretty clear. Locking restraints and / or bondage devices on children is most definitely abusive.

Angelina

Joh It is obvious false what she wants.

of course it's wrong, but that doesn't mean i would call it abuse. that would be going too far for me

youdontknowme As soon as there is the slightest hint of pressure on a child below the age of consent, it becomes abusive.

so i would like to understand what this pressure is. @shinydiamond77 what would happen if one or both daughters refuse? then i can judge better

dvoraks I was wondering if I should buy something for wife, or if I would offer my daughter her own when she is still wearing and still wants ...

i would wait a few more months. she is just discovering the belt. if she is still interested in a few more months, you can think about it again, but not yet.

Sin Nah. It's pretty clear. Locking restraints and / or bondage devices on children is most definitely abusive.

just theoretically, if your daughter begged you for it, would you still say it is abuse?

Joh

dvoraks
Take it slow.
Your daughter is exploring it and it could be, after some time, she lose the interest.
A belt is not cheap and you could spend it for something nice instead.

Laura

dvoraks I was wondering if I should buy something for wife

What does she have so far?

carg

Sin Locking restraints and / or bondage devices on children is most definitely abusive.

In that case something like a toddler leash that can be locked, so a child that often runs away can't open it him/herself and get under a car, would also fall under child abuse?
(I'm not disputing that a chastity belt is, just wondering about if the rule can be that broad. Nor am I saying everyone should start using leashes on their kids, but I think there are cases where they are the lesser evil.)

Vanessa

Avery

I've strong doubts about her,too.Probably telling stories.

Joh

Avery Too bad about all this because the original question is quite valid.

Which of the question do you mean?

Avery

Joh Which of the question do you mean?

The original question at the top of the thread, when and how to introduce the idea of a device to a young person.

Joh

dvoraks yes it is not cheap but it may fit better

I understand your intention but if you buy a new one for her she feels obligated because you spent so much extra money on her. This creates a predicament that you must avoid at all costs.

dvoraks

Joh don´t think only about money

Laura yes

Laura

dvoraks wife still only CB

With a secondary shield?

Joh

dvoraks don´t think only about money

I do not think only about your money. I try to show you how this kind of present will create an emotional dependency. She will no longer be free in her decision.

Angelina of course it's wrong, but that doesn't mean i would call it abuse. that would be going too far for me

I know but if she suppress the free development it is abuse.

Angelina just theoretically, if your daughter begged you for it, would you still say it is abuse?

She is not able to oversee the consequences. It is the job of the parents to protect her. If she goes this way and is locked 24/7 before she develop her sexuality it is abuse.
As I wrote earlier it is the same if you prevent her to talk. Sexuality is as important as talking.

carg In that case something like a toddler leash that can be locked, so a child that often runs away can't open it him/herself and get under a car, would also fall under child abuse?

This comparison is lame. The use of a toddler leash in some situation should prevent the dead of the toddler. But you should use it only when it is dangerous. Nevertheless you have to teach it not to run under a car or walk alone and run without killing itself.
A CB is not preventing death in a dangers situation. It prevents the free development of sexuality when used on kids.

Laura

dvoraks You don't need anything else and it should be a good example for your daughter

shinydiamond77

Angelina well, i still think it would have been better if there had been discussions beforehand.

Why would it be better?
Either way, I showed her the belt once it arrived, explained what it does, we discussed it and she agreed to wear it.

Angelina what would happen if one or both daughters refuse? then i can judge better

They can both refuse it completely - they won't wear it anymore if they do. But it must be final. I won't punish them in any way, if that's what you're asking.

Angelina

carg

that's exactly what I mean, it's always an individual thing and every case here should be judged individually.

Sin

carg In that case something like a toddler leash that can be locked, so a child that often runs away can't open it him/herself and get under a car, would also fall under child abuse?

Well I agree with @Joh, they are weird. But no. I think any sane person (or court) would distinguish the difference. Toddlers have no spacial awareness and are unable to think for themselves. Locking bondage equipment onto your teenage daughter is a vastly different scenario.

Imagine an emergency situation like a fire or an active shooter at a school... Everyone runs for their lives, and @Angelina tries to hobble daintily away because Daddy locked leg irons on her in the morning. I mean come on! What's not abusive about chaining up a teenage girl? (After watching her shower, I might add!). These stories are insane.

cham-ed

I had a child who was a runner. And he was locked in harness. I don't think he would have made it to five without it. So sometimes kids need no option for safety. Now past puberty vs at four ....

youdontknowme

Joh She is not able to oversee the consequences. It is the job of the parents to protect her. If she goes this way and is locked 24/7 before she develop her sexuality it is abuse.
As I wrote earlier it is the same if you prevent her to talk. Sexuality is as important as talking.

As I said, I would draw the boundary at the slightest hint of pressure to wear it. No holding the key while the device is being worn, no "we got this for you, so please use it so you get our money's worth", not even a mild suggestion of "we would prefer if you wore this" at least before the age of consent is reached. And no binding agreements, or arrangements resembling binding agreements, before the age of majority. I feel like even being supportive of voluntary wear before the age of consent is pushing boundaries, and buying a device specifically for a pubescent minor definitely is.

Joh This comparison is lame. The use of a toddler leash in some situation should prevent the dead of the toddler. But you should use it only when it is dangerous. Nevertheless you have to teach it not to run under a car or walk alone and run without killing itself.
A CB is not preventing death in a dangers situation. It prevents the free development of sexuality when used on kids.

Yeah, I am very uneasy with the concept of a leash in the first place, but I can see potential justification for it as it actually allows for more mobility than conventional safety methods like always holding the kid by the hand. Still too reminiscent of restraining an animal or a prisoner for me to be comfortable with the idea of leashing children.

carg

Joh This comparison is lame.

Perhaps you should read more carefully before you judge so harshly. I wrote "I'm not disputing that a chastity belt is, just wondering about if the rule can be that broad". There is no comparison, just another example that would fall within Sin's rule to illustrate that the rule might be formulated too generically.

youdontknowme Still too reminiscent of restraining an animal or a prisoner for me to be comfortable with the idea of leashing children.

This is a very common point of view, but I don't agree. There are lots of places where people use safety lines, like window cleaners, people working on roofs, mountaineers, sailing etc. To me a leash is nothing more than a safety line, and its use for dogs is just one of its many applications.

Angelina

Joh I know but if she suppress the free development it is abuse.

yes, but free development is also defined differently by everyone. that's the problem, i would take the overall situation of the mother/daughter relationship as a criterion.

Joh She is not able to oversee the consequences. It is the job of the parents to protect her. If she goes this way and is locked 24/7 before she develop her sexuality it is abuse.

i'm not necessarily talking about 24/7 but i still disagree. the role of parents is to educate and not to see everything as a danger without thinking.

Sin Imagine an emergency situation like a fire or an active shooter at a school... Everyone runs for their lives, and @Angelina tries to hobble daintily away because Daddy locked leg irons on her in the morning. I mean come on! What's not abusive about chaining up a teenage girl? (After watching her shower, I might add!). These stories are insane.

please do not exaggerate so shamelessly

dvoraks Hi, how long do you think to wait and how to proceed/continue for now?
And what for my wife?

until you are sure that she is mature enough to make this decision, that is up to you. as for your wife, well, what would she like?

@Joh @carg

i find the discussion quite interesting, but i would like to say something about it. for me, a child leash is just a sign that parents are too lazy to raise their children properly. i was taught as a small child that one has to behave carefully in public. of course a leash is better than a dead child, but it is also an admission by parents that they cannot raise their children (my opinion).

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