Church and Chastiy

curious

Angelina she has completely different reasons than my father

What are her reasons why she wants you in the belt versus the reasons your father has?
How would that change the situation?

Angelina

curious What are her reasons why she wants you in the belt versus the reasons your father has?

she thinks masturbation is a sin, while my father wants the belt so i can focus on "important things" in life and enter marriage as a responsible virgin. the difference is simple: i don't like my father's reasons, but i understand them. as an atheist, i don't understand my grandma's reasons, i don't care if i go to hell for masturbation because i don't believe in it anyway 😂

Avery

Angelina my father wants the belt so i can focus on "important things" in life

If this is true, why is he letting you get married at twenty? Do you not have more schooling left after next summer? Or does he not consider school important?

Andrew

Angelina i don't like my father's reasons, but i understand them. as an atheist, i don't understand my grandma's reasons

Paradoxically, for me as a non-believer, your grandmother's position (for whom masturbation is a violation of the "law of God" taught by the Church, which is not subject to rational evaluation) is much more understandable than your father's, whose motivation is questionable from a purely common sense point of view. How is the belt supposed to teach you (sexual) responsibility if it takes away your ability to make any decisions about it? Does the belt keep you "focused"? In the same way, one could say that chaining a student to a desk with a book on it will allow him to focus on his studies. All the belt actually does is protect your virginity. The (rather rhetorical) question is only whether such a drastic measure is justified for this purpose, especially in the context of the lack of voluntariness.

Angelina

Avery If this is true, why is he letting you get married at twenty? Do you not have more schooling left after next summer? Or does he not consider school important?

because it is important to him that i reach a certain level of maturity for sex. he sees that as a given when i get married. so if i am mature enough to make a decision like marriage, i am also mature enough to have sex.

Andrew How is the belt supposed to teach you (sexual) responsibility if it takes away your ability to make any decisions about it?

the belt is not to teach me sexual responsibility, but general responsibility to be able to make important decisions in my life. as i said before i do not share these arguments and therefore call myself an involuntary wearer, see my reply to Avery's post, there it says what i mean

Avery

Angelina because it is important to him that i reach a certain level of maturity for sex. he sees that as a given when i get married. so if i am mature enough to make a decision like marriage, i am also mature enough to have sex.

I do applaud him for giving up the opportunity to watch you shower.

Andrew

Angelina the belt is not to teach me sexual responsibility, but general responsibility to be able to make important decisions in my life

Despite my fascination with the chastity belt concept, it's really hard for me to see the cause and effect relationship between wearing it and developing life responsibility...

Angelina

Avery I do applaud him for giving up the opportunity to watch you shower.

until my wedding he will still do this, whereby the watching as such does not hurt me, but the reason for it, namely that he does not trust me

Avery

Angelina whereby the watching as such does not hurt me

You have accepted that it's OK for a father to watch his 16-19 year old daughter shower.

I do not think this forum should be sending this message to young people who come here.

Sin

Angelina namely that he does not trust me

Why not? You're meant to inherit his business and everything, yet he doesn't trust you enough to take a shower by yourself at 20 years of age? That's a bit sad.

Ines

Avery I do not think this forum should be sending this message to young people who come here.

Agree.
That is why whenever such an episode was told, the reaction was always forceful.
And I also believe that we have been improving in that aspect, not only as a forum but also as a community.

Angelina

Avery You have accepted that it's OK for a father to watch his 16-19 year old daughter shower.

it is not ok to carry out checks on whether a chastity belt is being cheated on or not. but if both sides agree that the bathroom is shared, even at the same time, and the father sees his daughter naked as a result, i don't see the problem. we should then not send any signal at all, but keep these things within the families

Andrew it's really hard for me to see the cause and effect relationship between wearing it and developing life responsibility...

Yes, I agree with you, that's why I don't share my father's arguments either, I just said that I can understand how he comes to this point of view

Sin Why not? You're meant to inherit his business and everything, yet he doesn't trust you enough to take a shower by yourself at 20 years of age? That's a bit sad.

He doesn't trust me that I wouldn't cheat on the belt, so that I wouldn't masturbate in the shower. he is not 100% wrong with that, although i prefer to spend my sexual activities exclusively with my girlfriend in the future

curious If we asked @Angelina if she would be able and willing to never touch herself when unsupervised in the shower, I very much assume, she would not be able or willing to give that promise, because chastity is not her own wish and she therefore would use any opportunity she gets.

that's true, so his distrust isn't 100% wrong

youdontknowme But the only reason she is not allowed to touch herself is because her dad does not trust her to be responsible about it.

The showers aren't about my girlfriend, it's never about her. Camryn was always free to shower and masturbate whenever she wanted, but she was not allowed to get sex from me. that has changed now, the goal to keep me chaste has not changed.

youdontknowme the arguments for her denial do not seem very sound to me.

The arguments are not reasonable either, but again one has nothing to do with the other. my father doesn't want any orgasms for me until my wedding, that's his goal. I only want sexual pleasure with my girlfriend, that's my goal. but my goal does not influence his goal

Avery It IS important to point out that the girl who posts in 12-15 threads each day on the unwed chastity forum does not and never did want to practice chastity.

Of course I practice chastity, just because I don't do it voluntarily doesn't mean I'm not chaste. the belt does the same for every girl, has the same effects. the belt is an object that does not distinguish whether you wear it voluntarily or involuntarily

Avery Odd that he seems to show up every time she wants to shower.

no, not odd If I want to take a shower without a belt, I tell him beforehand so that he can unlock the belt, so of course he knows when he "has to" supervise me

Avery and believe that @Angelina 's situation is some kind of model for the lifestyle.

It isn't!

You can continue to criticize my posts, but I will no longer accept that you tell other users what to think about my posts, every user should decide for themselves. I've never told a user not to listen to Avery's advice and it would be good if you didn't do that either

curious

I think it is time to comment on that topic and before doing so, I want to make it clear that my post is neither to be understood as endorsement nor condemnation of watching the wearer shower.
First the matter of trust:
If we asked @Angelina if she would be able and willing to never touch herself when unsupervised in the shower, I very much assume, she would not be able or willing to give that promise, because chastity is not her own wish and she therefore would use any opportunity she gets.
Second the matter of watching:
Depending on where you are from, nudity is handled in very different ways in a society.
In Japan for example taking hot bathes in public settings, called 'konyoku' is a very old tradition and while nowadays genders are more and more separated, the traditional konyoku is just men and women bathing together completely naked.
In former Eastern Germany FKK (translates to 'free body culture' ) was relatively common. This simply meant everyone was in the nude, going about his/her holiday activities otherwise as usual.
In contrast, US culture is much more influenced from puretanism and therefore segregation by gender is much stricter than in many other countries. Probably one of the reasons why @"Avery" is among those voicing her objection to supervised showers in the constellation of father - daughter so strongly.
In many German households sharing the single available bathroom in the morning when everyone needs to get ready for work / school around the same time is completely normal and so is seeing other family members in the nude.

youdontknowme

curious If we asked @Angelina if she would be able and willing to never touch herself when unsupervised in the shower, I very much assume, she would not be able or willing to give that promise, because chastity is not her own wish and she therefore would use any opportunity she gets.

But the only reason she is not allowed to touch herself is because her dad does not trust her to be responsible about it. If Camryn is allowed to be unbelted when she is alone (which she apparently is since her belt was sold), there is no reason to keep Angelina forcibly orgasm-free until her wedding night unless she proves that she acts utterly irresponsibly when she is allowed that form of relief. You could still work something out where they can only spend time together unless one of them (which would probably be Angelina, given that the only belt they have is sized for her) is locked, to keep the wedding night (or honeymoon, if they are too exhausted for that stuff on the eve of the wedding) special. But that is for the brides to decide.

curious In many German households sharing the single available bathroom in the morning when everyone needs to get ready for work / school around the same time is completely normal and so is seeing other family members in the nude.

Yeah, I do not see the big deal with that either, especially since she has told us often enough that he is mostly just there in the room minding his own business and not standing there staring at her hands or other body parts. Does not sound like a peep show to me. Only thing I find inappropriate is that she does not have a choice in that, but even there I would rank the fact that she is not given a choice whether or not to wear the belt (at least without threatening legal action) as worse.

Avery

curious because chastity is not her own wish and she therefore would use any opportunity she gets.

It IS important to point out that the girl who posts in 12-15 threads each day on the unwed chastity forum does not and never did want to practice chastity.

Avery

curious In many German households sharing the single available bathroom in the morning when everyone needs to get ready for work / school around the same time is completely normal and so is seeing other family members in the nude.

There are, over the years, postings commenting on this and, I would say, using this as an excuse for @Angelina 's father watching her shower.

And it's wrong.

A group of people sharing a sauna or a changing room or some kind of Japanese hot bath is not the same thing as a father waiting for his daughter to undress so she can shower and then entering the bathroom at the time and remaining until she gets dressed again. Neither is sharing one bathroom in the morning. Popping in for a quick shave while your daughter is behind an opaque curtain taking a quick shower is not the same as arriving every day when she is undressing to get into the shower and keeping an eye on her so you can see what's going on in there.

curious

youdontknowme If Camryn is allowed to be unbelted when she is alone (which she apparently is since her belt was sold), there is no reason to keep Angelina forcibly orgasm-free until her wedding night

I have to admit that I do not know the details around why Camryn had a belt in the first place, etc.
Probably because I was late to the party and did not have the time to read through some 1000+ posts on her situation.
That's why I do not comment on 4ight or wrong etc. but simply point out what I think is the reason under the given circumstances.
If keeping her orgasm-free until her wedding is the goal, no unsupervised time without the belt is the logical consequence.

Avery

youdontknowme Yeah, I do not see the big deal with that either, especially since she has told us often enough that he is mostly just there in the room minding his own business and not standing there staring at her hands or other body parts. Does not sound like a peep show to me.

Odd that he seems to show up every time she wants to shower. And evidently she can't shower when he is not around, except with her hardware on. That DOES sound like a peep show to me.

youdontknowme

curious If keeping her orgasm-free until her wedding is the goal

If. But between her dad's wishy-washy arguments about her not being responsible enough while being happy to let her marry at 20 and the fact that orgasms without your partner should really be an arrangement between her and Camryn, the arguments for her denial do not seem very sound to me.

curious

youdontknowme
Unlike you, I do not like to engage in arguments about what is sound or legal or whatever on the internet, because I think I am not in the position to judge over other peoples lifes. I take things on face value and comment based on what was said and try to limit that to the situation as given by the person in question, not by what I think should be the ideal situation. We all have different opinions and ideologies and there is no point fighting over these - especially not online. Personally, yes, I do think her fathers arguments do not make much sense. Making a decision to marry is no sign of maturity in my opinion. So if I was in her fathers position and keeping her orgasm-free to ensure her focus on what he considers very important, then the logical approach for me would be to keep her belted until she has finished her studies successfully and only then permit marriage. But as I said - it is not my logic that is relevant here but her fathers logic and so I have limited my comment to what I understand is the goal in the given situation.

Andrew

youdontknowme arguments for her denial do not seem very sound to me.

I find it absurd that on the one hand a girl is considered responsible enough to get married, and on the other hand, she cannot wash herself without supervision, because she could behave "irresponsibly" and masturbate.

Avery

youdontknowme If. But between her dad's wishy-washy arguments about her not being responsible enough while being happy to let her marry at 20 and the fact that orgasms without your partner should really be an arrangement between her and Camryn, the arguments for her denial do not seem very sound to me.

Well said.

youdontknowme

Avery Opaque curtain? Glass partitions are fairly common here, and they are rarely frosted if they only separate the shower from the bathroom. Door and window glass will of course be, if present.

And she has often stated that he is not keeping an eye on her as directly as you appear to imagine, just in the room so he would find out if she did something funny in an obvious manner.

curious So if I was in her father's position and keeping her orgasm-free to ensure her focus on what he considers very important, then the logical approach for me would be to keep her belted until she has finished her studies successfully and only then permit marriage.

Keeping her orgasm-free is absolutely not something her father should have a say in without a very good reason. The way I see it, he is forcing himself into her personal matters far more than we are forcing ourselves into his. She will obviously know more about whether he provided that, but "she is not mature enough to make the decision to enjoy sexual pleasure" sounds quite absurd when he does consider her mature enough for much more life-changing decisions. But then again, I think the same thing about alcohol laws in most US states.

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