Kaja The thing that was created in the medieval Europe would be called an western morality or something like that. It comes from christian faith, but is mainly about creating the right interpretation that matches the requirements of politics and economics of the time. The thing that contrasts this to other abrahamic faiths is that in modern christianity/western culture the common values are presented as mostly being orthogonal to the faith (which is certainly a good thing, but it still makes you think about how these values were determined).

In both judaism and islam there are quite obvious religious values that were originally motivated by public policy reasons and have nothing to do with faith at all that are still orthodoxly observed by large groups of the relevant believers. The obvious thing are various dietary restrictions that have to do with not eating stuff that is hard to store such that it does not go stale.

And by the way various religious beliefs about chastity before marriage and chastity of preachers and chastity of who knows who are also product of public policy of the pre-modern era. The state essentially needed married couples producing and caring for children that would become another (preferentially larger) generation of unqualified indentured labor.

The modern society needs significantly different demographic structure to be sustainable and solves completely different set of day-to-day problems than meat going stale.

    6373e6b2 Maybe to clarify: the modern christianity is whatever the pre-modern political elites needed it to be in order to promulgate their rule. And maybe specifically for @Kaja: think about why in Finfarum: “O rybari a jeho zene” the pope is more than emperor.

    Joh If they decide to handle it that way, you should accept it.

    Of course, the only question is whether it is healthy to convince a child that nudity is something unnatural. we were all born naked and even if we don't think it's good socially when people are naked, we should accept it in certain situations (I'm just saying)

    ######
    PS: does every second thread (at least it feels) have to be created a religious discussion?

      Angelina does every second thread (at least it feels) have to be created a religious discussion?

      Ignore it and it will die.

        Joh Ignore it and it will die.

        good idea, even if it is difficult for me 😂

          Kaja it is not so simple. Christian morality is, today, a collective of movement and changes. It is broadly different from what it was during Costantinus reign, or during Charlemagne empire, or in Dante century, or in 1500, or after the Counter reformation.

          In middle ages people were way less repressed than we are today, the big change was brought during reinassance first and during all the xvii century. And, again, the fatal blow was dealt during xix century.

          Don't blame poor middle ages, because you would be surprised by all the things that were usual back then.

          Angelina

          Ignoring it for me it would be impossible. I like to talk about it.
          It's easy to fall on it every time we talk about being prude, shy or the opposite because that is one of the prominents influences who shaped our European culture.
          But the fact is that I already have said what I stated in this post itself. I think that the discussions always go towards middle age morality... XD

            LoonyMel Ignoring it for me it would be impossible. I like to talk about it.

            Than move it in a topic about believes and Christianity.

            LoonyMel I think that the discussions always go towards middle age morality... XD

            right, because christianity was extremely abused in the middle ages. unfortunately, some moral values from that time have survived.

            however, when i enter a public changing room or shower, i have to expect to meet naked people. if i don't want that for myself or for my underage children, it is my responsibility to avoid these places.

              Angelina however, when i enter a public changing room or shower, i have to expect to meet naked people. if i don't want that for myself or for my underage children, it is my responsibility to avoid these places.

              Yes, I can expect naked people and that is perfectly fine because it fits to a clear expectation.

              I don't have to expect that my children will see people wearing a chastity device which is a completely different story and I think no wearer has the right to force anyone, especially children, to see it. I am not even sure it would be legal and I am very happy that I am not allowed to show my chastity belt or tightbands to anyone in public under any circumstances.

                Sara2001 and I think no wearer has the right to force anyone, especially children, to see it.

                difficult to judge, you could also say the other way round, the others are not forced to use a public shower or a public changing room. from an emotional point of view i agree with you, but i'm not sure if it's legally forbidden, you can argue from both sides.

                  Angelina I dont see anything wrong on children sees it. Fetishes are naturall part of our sex life. And seeing chastity belt really does not harm anybody.

                    Kaja You think children should see foreign people's sex life? There is a reason why porn is forbidden for underag people.

                      Sara2001 I am not allowed to show my chastity belt or tightbands to anyone in public under any circumstances.

                      That is a topic that I have been discussing with my husband and friends.
                      The way that things look is the factor. Of course I would never tell children about my sex life.

                        Is wearing a chastity belt porn? I personally don't see any association with porn. I'm not saying you should show a chastity belt to minors! Many porn sites make chastity belts a kink. But more openness would contribute to wider acceptance.

                          Sara2001 You think children should see foreign people's sex life? There is a reason why porn is forbidden for underag people.

                          Exactly.

                          • Kaja replied to this.

                            I would again argue that it depends on the wearer's attitude. A truly innocent child would see it more as a strange piece of underwear than as a sex thing, and those who are aware of its purpose to limit the wearer's sexuality are also aware enough about those matters that it should not be necessary to hide it from them. Thus I would not consider the device itself immoral, but the wearer's attitude towards it - which might express itself in the mannerisms in which they engage with the device - may make it immoral to let themself be seen in it in public areas with practical nudity.

                              Milou-dH No, but for most people it represents a sexual fetish. Foreigners should have the smallest impact on sex education on children. This is the job of parents, friends and most important the education system of your country. Showing children, especially foreign children your belt in a public place just feels wrong for me because it can impact the children's sexual evolvement.

                              youdontknowme I would again argue that it depends on the wearer's attitude. A truly innocent child would see it more as a strange piece of underwear than as a sex thing, and those who are aware of its purpose to limit the wearer's sexuality are also aware enough about those matters that it should not be necessary to hide it

                              I completely disagree. An innocent child would remember it and think about it during finding and exploring it's own sexuality and a child who is already aware of the purpose may find it interesting before exploring what is nowadays seen as normal sexuality by the majority of the society.