What would you need for a chastity-friendly culture?

youdontknowme

Angelina I would go one step further, it would be acceptable for me if the child (at least from the age of 14) agrees, everything that is forced would be extremely bad, I think society and the legislators should clearly define the limits

The problem is that to prevent abuse, you need to ensure that consent is freely given, informed and all that sort of stuff. Considering the power balance between a minor and their guardian, something that resembles consent to an outside observer can be manufactured through various carrot-and-stick methods and misinformation, so while it is certainly possible that minors want to grow up chaste and while it may be good to give them the opportunity, allowing parents (or other authority figures like teachers) to hold their keys would also make it a lot easier for abusers to get away with their crimes, so I still consider it a bad idea.

Angelina

Joh If it would be like that we would have a vague situation. Did she agree to it or is she forced?

even though i'm on thin ice now, i'll make the comparison. what about young muslim girls who wear a headscarf? we don't know either if it's voluntary or if they're forced (mostly by the family). we accepted it because it's part of religious/cultural self-determination. i know it's thin ice, but the comparison seems reasonable to me.

youdontknowme

also here a comparison. until a few years ago there was the possibility that minors could marry from the age of 16 if the parents agreed, if they did not do this one could sue for consent in court. perhaps one could open up the possibility that in the case of minors the conditions are determined beforehand by a court.

Max9

But then there would already have to be a mass movement, only then would the infrastructure of public toilets be changed to "chastity belt friendly".

Rina

youdontknowme The problem is that to prevent abuse, you need to ensure that consent is freely given, informed and all that sort of stuff. Considering the power balance between a minor and their guardian, something that resembles consent to an outside observer can be manufactured through various carrot-and-stick methods and misinformation, so while it is certainly possible that minors want to grow up chaste and while it may be good to give them the opportunity, allowing parents (or other authority figures like teachers) to hold their keys would also make it a lot easier for abusers to get away with their crimes, so I still consider it a bad idea.

@Angelina This is why I feel like chastity belt should only be normal between two consenting adults without power imbalance, even if it is more accepted than now. That's where normalization of such things like chastity belts should stop at.

Comparing it with headscarf muslims wear (hijab) is not a good comparison either. Look at what is going on in Iran, and things that has happened in Iran. There were and is constant resistance and many human rights organizations are siding with resistance. It's because forcing such things via law, social pressure or coercion violates fundamental human rights. If something like chstity belt is worn fully free of pressure, coercion, or any power imbalance, I'm okay with it. But once any of three gets involved, I'm strongly against it.

Max9

What would one need for a chastity friendly culture.
Well, especially for men society expects them to be hung and always willing to habe sex.
I think we would need some general acceptence in the first place. That's the most important thing.
Aoart from that: Having some steril warm water injectos for the tubes of chastity devices at public toilets would be nice.
Then... maybe some japaneese toilets as they have a water spray to clean the genitals.
Would be practical to clean the female belts.

Kaja

Angelina I thing that is wrong that we acceptet scarfs without animadversions. You can see in Iran now that womend dont like it...

Joh

Angelina what about young muslim girls who wear a headscarf? we don't know either if it's voluntary or if they're forced (mostly by the family). we accepted it because it's part of religious/cultural self-determination

Their is a big difference between wearing headscarf and a CB. The CB means you are Not free to develop your sexuality.
Whereas a headscarf can certainly be disturbing. But when she is among friends, she can simply take it off.

Max9

Angelina Not necessarily. They are common in japan, already.... and I guess there is ni chastity belt mass movement jet, so...

Sara2001

I think because you could never be sure if someone wears it as her free decision or if she is forced to wear it in one or the other way, it would be wrong to generally accept it as something normal.

It's a bit like with burquas and niquabs.

Angelina

Kaja I thing that is wrong that we acceptet scarfs without animadversions. You can see in Iran now that womend dont like it...

of course, i didn't really want to start the discussion here, but it would be similar to a chastity belt being the "object of contention" instead of a headscarf. you can accept it, but it would cause discussion

Rina

without repeating it, i wrote exactly that in response to @Kaja. i say thin ice, but the comparison is fitting.
besides, you also write something about balance. if it goes according to that, it will be difficult anyway because a woman who wears a chastity belt always puts herself in dependence, at least if she has a keyholder. it just has to be ensured that there is a basic consensus and that the keyholder does not abuse this power.

Sara2001

Rina That's why I think it is a good comparesation. If you ask orthodox Muslim families, they will all tell you that it is a free decision. You can see the truth in Iran.

Avery

Rina This is why I feel like chastity belt should only be normal between two consenting adults without power imbalance,

Bravo for you. This is possibly the most sensible thing I've ever read here.

Ines

Keep in mind that in this thread there is no mention of any type of obligation.
It talks about what steps society should take to make a girl see more desirable wearing a chastity belt and what steps society should take so that girls who already use it feel less weird.

It is clear that achieving this chastity-friendly environment is essential if legislation is to be established, but this topic is not touched on in this thread, especially since this jump to legislation does not have to happen.

Sara2001

Joh I have to disagree. For example it's absolutely usual to find your first boyfriend at school or something similar nowadays. With both, a headscarf or a CB it's very likely that this will not happen. It impacts what nowadays is called a usual sexual development of a girl to a >!woman. Some may have other values, but that's the norm and I think for the very first steps like kissing and things like that, a CB would have even lesser impact then a headscarf.

Ines Keep in mind that in this thread there is no mention of any type of obligation

Yes, but there is no way to proof the free will. Like with headscarfs.

Ines It talks about what steps society should take to make a girl see more desirable wearing a chastity belt

Yes and the answer is that the society should do absolutely nothing to make it more desirable, the society should do the opposite to protect girls from having to wear a chastity belt against their will.

Ines what steps society should take so that girls who already use it feel less weird.

No steps. We are an exception. We should be an exception. Nobody should see this as something normal. The possibility of missuses against the wearer's will is just way to high. If it's socially acceptable, less people would see the victims as victims.

Angelina

Ines since this jump to legislation does not have to happen.

that's true, that's why i think it's good that you split the whole thing into two threads again, but of course we also have to point out the risks of a chastity-friendly society. of course we would have many advantages and i would like the discussion mysteel/neosteel to be like the discussion samsung/apple, but then not everything is colourful and happy

Joh The CB means you are Not free to develop your sexuality.
Whereas a headscarf can certainly be disturbing

@Sara2001 described it well, i think the differences are not that big. many muslim girls have problems to find a german man if he doesn't even see how the hair looks like. i don't want to go on thin ice, but i would even say because a headscarf is more obvious, it would even prevent the first steps of a relationship more, but i'm not sure about that.

Ines I will not discuss it, and I encourage you to open a thread, but the topic of this thread is another, @Sara2001

but to separate one from the other would be nonsense. when we talk about how to create a chastity-friendly culture, we need to be open about all the risks and try to find solutions for them.

Ines Some may argue “that an alien invasion would be necessary to achieve a world friendly to chastity”

just look at the USA and you will see where impossible things can come true. i think once a stone is set in motion, it will go very quickly.

Joh are more flexible and don't let a headscarf stop them if they find the woman attractive.

If they are so flexible, a chastity belt should not be an obstacle either. 😉

Joh No chastity belt for women under 18 (21) years.

Would you stick to your opinion if the parents were not the key holders?

Kaja

Sara2001 True! True! True!

I love reading your post there. You are the most responsible and sapient user there.

Ines

Sara2001 No steps. We are an exception. We should be an exception. Nobody should see this as something normal. The possibility of missuses against the wearer's will is just way to high. If it's socially acceptable, less people would see the victims as victims.

I will not discuss it, and I encourage you to open a thread, but the topic of this thread is another, @Sara2001 , the topic of this thread is, precisely the opposite.

Joh

Sara2001 for the very first steps like kissing and things like that, a CB would have even lesser impact then a headscarf.

I do not presume to judge what has a lesser influence. I just got the impression that nowadays young people are more flexible and don't let a headscarf stop them if they find the woman attractive.

Joh

Sara2001 the society should do the opposite to protect girls from having to wear a chastity belt against their will.

I agree with you. No chastity belt for women under 18 (21) years.

Megan

Ines I will not discuss it, and I encourage you to open a thread, but the topic of this thread is another, @Sara2001 , the topic of this thread is, precisely the opposite.

If @Sara2001 feels this way it is good for her to say so to us. She should have that talk with her husband that she mentioned. I don't see the need for the strictness when she is a married wife.

I am often very chaste most weeks and I don't ever want to masturbate which is the other non stop topic that keeps coming up. BUT I don't think anything is gained from the amount of discipline in her relationship when she is already a wonderful wife.

youdontknowme

Ines I will not discuss it, and I encourage you to open a thread, but the topic of this thread is another, @Sara2001 , the topic of this thread is, precisely the opposite.

I would argue that the point of this topic is to imagine a world where chastity belt wearers have it easier than in mainstream society today, not one where it is easy to pressure otherwise unwilling individuals into a belt.

And in that context, Sara's concerns seem perfectly fitting. Normalizing chastity will help wearers, yes, but we have to recognize the cost of that, that it would be difficult to normalize chastity without exposing unwilling people to the threat of non-consensual wear. Especially considering the authoritarian relationships in which she experienced enforced chastity - parental enforcement and the D/s relationship of a DD couple - a lot of harm can be done by those who engage in that without a thorough understanding of consent, so there is potential for significant problems if you normalize that to mainstream society.

Sara2001

Ines 1 , the topic of this thread is, precisely the opposite

If it's precisely the opposite, then this is the perfect place to discuss it, at least from my understanding that's how a discussion is working. Otherwise it would just be a collection of like-minded statements.

Megan She should have that talk with her husband that she mentioned. I don't see the need for the strictness when she is a married wife.

My husband reads what I write here or anywhere else but this is consensual like everything I do for him is consensual. I know he is very strict but this is something I did know in advance, I was aware of my other options and I willing accepted to enter/continue this lifestyle for him. I don't see any relation of our lifestyle to the topic. We don't show my belt around in public to attract others to do the same.

youdontknowme And in that context, Sara's concerns seem perfectly fitting. Normalizing chastity will help wearers, yes, but we have to recognize the cost of that, that it would be difficult to normalize chastity without exposing unwilling people to the threat of non-consensual wear

Thank you!!!

youdontknowme so there is potential for significant problems if you normalize that to mainstream society.

Thank you!!!

Ines but the purpose of this thread is to reflect on what is missing.
Some may argue “that an alien invasion would be necessary to achieve a world friendly to chastity”, does not mean that an alien invasion is desired, but rather that it is believed that this is the condition to achieve it.

Okay, let's play this game.

A system that makes it 100% sure that it can't be missused to force anyone to do anything would be necessary (impossible to achieve)
A society where different social norms in one society wouldn't be seen as a way to put yourself above someone else (impossible to achieve)
The government/state would be willing to control the chastity system and to strictly, strictly, strictly enforce the rules against missuse of chastity belts. Missuse of any kind must be seen as sexual abuse
Every kid must be educated in this area to be able to do a fact and knowledge based decision when she turns 18 and to ensure she knows her other options.
A system must be installed that makes it possible for any wearer to get out of the belt at any time without the need of a keyholder by going to some kind of office or something
Every wearer needs to do a mental health check every year, if she doesn't pass or doesn't do the check, the belt must be removed
Every keyholder needs to be registered and needs to do an education like a driver's license that needs to be renewed every year as well as a mental health check that needs to be passed.
Every wearer must have a kind of tutor to whom she can speak about everything at any time. They have to talk at least weekly. This person must not be a part of her social environment. If the tutor sees problems this person can decide about unlocking at any time.

I think if all this is given, I think it could work.

Ines

youdontknowme I would argue that the point of this topic is to imagine a world where chastity belt wearers have it easier than in mainstream society today, not one where it is easy to pressure otherwise unwilling individuals into a belt.

Exact.
I understand the position of @Sara2001 and @Kaja, but the purpose of this thread is to reflect on what is missing.
Some may argue “that an alien invasion would be necessary to achieve a world friendly to chastity”, does not mean that an alien invasion is desired, but rather that it is believed that this is the condition to achieve it.

In many cases I share their opinions, and in others I do not, but it is logical, my training is very different and my experience too, I have never felt obligated to anything, and I am not an "extremist of sexual freedom". either, so obviously I speak from my perspective.

Kaja

Joh I have to agree with you. But on the other hand I started having this fetish really before my 18th birthday. I really wanted one before and I really want one now.

Joh

Kaja But on the other hand I started having this fetish really before my 18th birthday. I really wanted one before and I really want one now.

I don't see a solution that works for both. Apart from that, you can only drive a car on your own when you are 18 years old, even if you want to. There are always restrictions that are no longer valid when you reach the age of majority.

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