Keyholder welcome thread.

Jonas

Raziel A long time ago, my friends called it "choking the chicken."

In that case I should have got a job at KFC.

youdontknowme

Jonas Kentucky Schreit Ficken?

Angelina

Raziel

😂

youdontknowme Kentucky Schreit Ficken?

🤣

you guys are killing me

Owl

[Off-Topic]
(Moderators, feel free to split my message and maybe the whole "blue b***s" digression into some male discomfort thread.)

Angelina

I'm not sure if there has been serious investigation to clearly link the feeling described with the above term with different amount of sperm in the testicles. (Actually the whole sex research is such an absurdly young area. So I wouldn't wonder if that part was still "in the dark" - even though about half of humanity has an instinctive insight ... ;-)) From anecdotal reports I'd say that there is both a short-term component of "blue b***s" and a long-term component.

The short-term is the acute, very strong sensation during heightened level of sexual arousal. The long-term component is something that I sense as straining, stretched, "waves" or phases of discomfort. Noting them for mere minutes or even few hours, then subsiding and later returning. In my experience, they clearly worsen over prolonged phases without ejaculating.

But that may strongly vary from person to person or even for the same person in different states. Myself experienced something like a plateau (or even some spontaneous "mitigation") sporadically. (Means even w/o cumming.) The noFap-community or maybe the one or other spiritual group has some encouraging stories, how the discomfort will (eventually, if you do it right, maybe...;-)) resolve and one manage to get to a higher state ... (Hence, my "Nirvana" jibe.)

Personally, I've apparently never felt that state beyond "lower needs", yet. My body always took an "emergency exit" and got rid of any excess amount of liquids ...

I should note: It has been substantially well documented, how male reproductive organs and nerve systems cause this emission one or the other way, whether wanted or not. And: Blue B***s tend to make stupid. Or maybe more precisely: Twists and tunes our brains towards seeking very primal, very carnal solutions. As said, to weal or woe.

Nonetheless, that could somewhat be managed with appropriate chastity equipment and regime. But even with the most unbeatable equipment and strictest regime, they can't prevent ejaculating during sleep. (And possibly shouldn't anyway.) One reason, imho, why I think that male chastity works worse than females'. It somehow lacks or "leaks" ;-) no matter what I do. But maybe that's just cheap male excuses ...

I think it was sex researcher William Masters who once admitted that it was actually the female sexuality that was (in contrast to contemporary attitude) vastly superior compared to the males. In think this is true in many aspects. I congratulate everyone with female genitals to not suffer from blue b***s. Dehydration might still become a problem to some extend. If you know what I mean ... ;-)

Jen

Owl did you see recently a new article on masturbation in apes? - for males it increased reproductive success but not for females.

pestulens

Jen interesting do you have a link or article title?

Jen

pestulens I saw it on the feed I don't know sorry but if you search masturbation apes there is lots looks like someone wrote a paper recently - oh it was on origins, has been happening for 40 million years!

pestulens

Jen ok I'll look when I get home
Edit, I believe I found it: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2023.0061
I might comment after I give it a read-through.

Sin

Jen if you search masturbation apes...

Jesus Christ girl what on earth is in your search history?! You need to get out of your belt more! 😛

pestulens

pestulens OK, read through the summary and findings, I probably won't have time to dig into the methodology so I might have missed something but here are my takeaways.
The central question they were looking at is whether masturbation has an evolutionary benefit or is just a byproduct of a high sex drive.
This study was done on the species level, not individuals, and they only measured whether members of a particular species masturbate at all, not how prevalent it is. They were mostly looking for correlations between masturbation being observed in a particular species and that species living in conditions where it has previously been theorized it might be beneficial.
They found strong correlations between male masturbation and 2 different factors in which masturbation has been theorized to be beneficial. The first is 'postcopulatory competition' (ie when multiple males mate with a single female during one mating cycle). The second is the prevalence of pathogens that infect the reproductive system (ie STDs). They conclude that there is strong evidence that male masturbation in primates is an evolved trait.
They did not find a correlation between either of these factors and female masturbation. The data on female masturbation in primates is much less complete, so the researchers don't draw any conclusions from this other than "we need more data." Looking at the data they do have, however, it does appear that primate species where males masturbate but females don't are relatively common but ones where the reverse is true are pretty rare (though a few do exist).
Also, for anyone who is wondering, yes humans are included in the data set.

TLDR: evidence masturbation is beneficial in male primates, insufficient evidence to draw a conclusion in females.

Avery

pestulens They found strong correlations between male masturbation and 2 different factors in which masturbation has been theorized to be beneficial. The first is 'postcopulatory competition' (ie when multiple males mate with a single female during one mating cycle).

I'm trying to figure out what this means. Does it mean that more than one male mates with a female and the males involved then engage in a kind of masturbation competition ('postcopulatory competition')?

youdontknowme

Avery I believe it is more that a female monkey usually only gets pregnant from one father at a time, so if she had sex with multiple males during her fertile days, their sperms compete inside her body. A male who masturbated would have fresher sperm, which gives his seed an edge in producing a child.

pestulens

youdontknowme that is how it's described In the paper as well.

Avery

youdontknowme I believe it is more that a female monkey usually only gets pregnant from one father at a time, so if she had sex with multiple males during her fertile days, their sperms compete inside her body. A male who masturbated would have fresher sperm, which gives his seed an edge in producing a child.

OK. So it's competition among the sperm, not directly among male monkeys.

curious

Avery
Not as simple as that.
First the male monkey would follow whatever the rituals are in that species to actually get to the point of intercourse with the female. Not every male monkey will succeed to that point with every female.
And then there is sperm motility. So essentially how quick sperms can move to meet and penetrate the egg.
But being early by - let´s say - 4 hours in terms of time of intercourse will of course give a huge head start.

pestulens

Avery think of it more like an arms race between the male monkeys to give their sperm the best chance of being the one to fertilize her. There are a bunch of different ways they go about increasing the chances and this is one of them.

Avery

pestulens think of it more like an arms race between the male monkeys to give their sperm the best chance of being the one to fertilize her. There are a bunch of different ways they go about increasing the chances and this is one of them.

OK, I see. Does this mean that the males (other than humans) have the intellectual capacity to figure this out (even if they don't understand all the details of why it works), or is it more a matter of an inborn drive or something else? If you think I'm beating this to death just ignore but studying primate behavior can sometimes have extensions to human behavior and I like to understand what's going on in guy's heads.

youdontknowme

Avery Does this mean that the males (other than humans) have the intellectual capacity to figure this out

I mean, if you look at humans, it is not exactly our intellectual capacity that leads us to have children... not only have our brains created methods deliberately designed to avoid having children without cutting back on our sexual urges, but family sizes are shrinking and we males are not exactly known for being at the top of our mental capacity when reproductive urges are involved.

It is simply natural selection in action. The males predisposed to doing things that will aid their sperm have a larger chance of creating offspring, thus each generation will be more likely to have habits that aid in reproduction than the generation before. Monkeys do not know they wank for better chances of being the baby's daddy, they just wank because they enjoy wanking.

Raziel

Avery
There was a video of 2 gorillas having oral sex, because of a rumor that somebody at the zoo showed them a video of humans from "p-hub" and they imitated that act. I'm sure it's a learned behavior, but if animals experience happiness, they'll reenact certain characteristics to get rewarded. Similar to dogs knowing treats are good if they follow a few commands.

As for humans, everyone has a different amount of sex drive, and whoever you ask may give you a different perspective. There is a belief that animals are programmed to reproduce and mate as much as they can. Some animals only mate with alphas, so I'm not sure if it is because of dominant genes or not, but it could be part of the programming that states "must have sex."

Edit (in case you wondered): https://nypost.com/2021/09/23/gorillas-shock-onlookers-with-oral-sex-at-bronx-zoo-video/?utm_source=reddit.com

MissBlossom

Avery
Those who believe in evolution speak of evolved "strategies," but they're just behaviors or characteristics that were "selected for" over time because they led to greater reproductive success. The term does not imply conscious planning or strategizing in the human sense.

Those who believe in special creation speak of God's design, and His decision in His wisdom to give certain animals certain characteristics and instincts.

I cannot imagine that male apes have any concept that there is a cause and effect relationship between self pleasure and the probability that the female they are mating with will have their biological offspring instead of another male ape's. From the perspective of the ape, it probably just feels good.

pestulens

Avery mostly inborn drives, though at least some apes (other than humans) are smart enough that they might be able to figure it out.
There are a bunch of other "strategies" that males employ in this kind of competition that are purely physiological so we know it shapes the creature.

Also, yes I aggre studying other primates (especially other apes) cab give us useful incite info humans, though we should be cautious about jumping to conclusions

Avery

youdontknowme Monkeys do not know they wank for better chances of being the baby's daddy, they just wank because they enjoy wanking.

When I was in high school girls would ask their boyfriends to "wank" aforehand so they would be less ready freddy and last longer to give the girl more satisfaction.

Avery

Raziel Some animals only mate with alphas,

Another high school example some girls would only "mate" with (American) football players. Same thing. I found runners smarter and better lays because they had more imagination.

Avery

MissBlossom I cannot imagine that male apes have any concept that there is a cause and effect relationship between self pleasure and the probability that the female they are mating with will have their biological offspring instead of another male ape's. From the perspective of the ape, it probably just feels good.

That makes sense to me, whatever that's worth. Probably what people paid for it.

Avery

pestulens mostly inborn drives, though at least some apps (other than humans) are smart enough that they might be able to figure it out.

That would be apes.

pestulens Also, yes I agree studying other primates (especially other apes) can give us useful insight into humans, though we should be cautious about jumping to conclusions.

It's parallels I find interesting. Animals act in certain fashions to chase off competing males or attract nearby females. Human males do the same, grooming themselves, driving fancy cars, taking girls to fancy places. Now that beach season has started where I am you can see guys sticking close to their girlfriends who wear in skimpy bikinis, the guys hoping to ward off any interested strangers.

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