Introductions

Tim

Angelina well Vanessa and I are very similar in many ways, but I would not say that we are aliens. What kind of questions do you have for me? Well, maybe this will clear things up for you.

I don't think I can ask that question in a way that would get me a useful answer.

You feel alien because "I try not to let my equipment have too much effect on my character" is something I would never have been capable of at your age.

There is a kind of empathic personality that is very sensitive but has trouble forgiving when they feel they have been wronged... and I have it. Your upbringing would have either broken me or turned me into a sociopath. I know, because my life experiences have taught me too much about what might have been.

Even if I've now learned to throw away the emotions for my own health, I still remember every slight. It's been over 20 years, and I still clearly remember that, out of many reasons, my father is not to be trusted because he didn't ask before throwing away the boxes of old magazines he'd offered to store in his garage.

Saintprudence Maybe you should start “Tim’s question time,” haha.

I think I'll start several. One group of questions I want to ask is "Thought Experiment: What Would You Trade and Why?" and I wouldn't want that to get mixed up in other things.

Saintprudence

Tim I certainly look forward to your questions and challenges. I throw them out there on a regular basis but I’d prefer more come from elsewhere so I don’t bug Laura too much, haha.

Angelina

Ines This Is the goal. To have the information we'll classified. This is not a wassap group or a Twitter, this is a forum.

I am well aware of this, but you must also remember that it is sometimes very difficult to keep track of a large number of topics. it can also disturb the "flow of discussion".

Tim

well i think it's very difficult for outsiders to describe why i act this way. i'll give it a try. i have a very big basis of trust with my father and even if we don't agree on everything, we talk to each other and about everything. we try to understand each other and that's the point i often doubt here. parents and children in this forum don't talk to each other enough. why should i feel emotionally broken ? i have a happy relationship, i am good in school and i have friends. the belt is of course a big problem, but life consists of many single things and most of them are very beautiful

Tim

Saintprudence Heheh. Now I want to go back over the draft a few times to make sure it's good enough.

The curse of the author.

Saintprudence

Tim your authorial intent is one of the things that fascinates me; we don’t get much questioning from that kind of perspective!

Tim

Saintprudence Heheh. I hope I won't let you down then.

Any good author will say it's what you never expected to learn that's more valuable, but what drew me is orgasm denial's use to drive characters.

(Like you said, "But denying orgasms? You never quite get used to that." The libido is the only primal urge that isn't to preserve your own life, and that means "what the mind wants" and "what the libido wants" are a unique and powerful way for a mind to be at war with itself. This shows up in a weaker but more socially acceptable way in stories where characters struggle with unrequited love.)

I do try to find ways to rewrite what my muse brings to remove the chastity while still preserving what makes it special, so my stories can be "respectable" and something I can be proud to associate with my penname. It does sometimes work, but it isn't always possible.

Often, what makes unwilling chastity a powerful storytelling tool and what makes it uncomfortable to society can't be separated. Anything that puts such a deep part of a character's mind under the control of another would draw the same resistance. It's just easier for people to recognize what they are seeing deep in their gut, and more versatile, because it doesn't carry other unwanted implications like the never-ending thirst of a vampire.

Ines

Angelina it can also disturb the "flow of discussion".

No since the discussion is in right place. The " glow of discussion " is missed when someone do not find a thread of her interest just because in the right place it is hidden in a mountain.
Order is the basis.

Tim

Angelina well i think it's very difficult for outsiders to describe why i act this way. i'll give it a try. i have a very big basis of trust with my father and even if we don't agree on everything, we talk to each other and about everything. we try to understand each other and that's the point i often doubt here. parents and children in this forum don't talk to each other enough. why should i feel emotionally broken ? i have a happy relationship, i am good in school and i have friends. the belt is of course a big problem, but life consists of many single things and most of them are very beautiful

I did understand that from what you wrote in other threads. The disagreement goes deeper.

Understand that my mind exists in a constant tug-of-war between cowardice and "live free or die". My mother told me that, as a baby, I would fight against going somewhere I enjoyed because she made the decision, not me. (I don't know if parents of toddlers talk about "the terrible twos" in Germany, but I was born two years old and grew out of it very slowly.)

If I was in your situation, my instincts would compel me to fixate on how it wasn't something other people have to suffer through. Even as my fear of leaving the nest kept me obedient, my love, respect, and trust for my parents would be withering and rotting behind that mask.

I know from the time I flirted with nervous breakdown that the stress of holding onto those emotions might break me... but I also know that not being able to let go of my resentment might turn me into a sociopath like my father, who has the same personality type and did have a nervous breakdown in college.

...and sociopaths are defined by their inability to form new emotional bonds and their willingness to cut existing ones. (Pretending to care so they can exploit people is a different matter. Sociopaths usually learn to fake being normal very well. Be wary of anyone who is too charming.)

Vanessa

Ines

And it would be much better for her.

Angelina

Let us know if you manage it.😉

Tim Hi, I'm Tim. I'm 35 and from North America.

Welcome! 🙂

Ines . It is not rude any opinion, it is rude when you share it in an arrogant and impolite form.

I agree.

Tim To be honest, you and @Vanessa are the most alien to me so I hope talking instead of lurking will help to fix that.

We're not the only ones in this situation here,if you talk about reluctantly wearing a chastity belt.

Angelina

I agree with you.Our situation seems very awful,especially as we hate our chastity devices,but the other parts of our lives are pretty good!🙂

Angelina it is sometimes very hard

I agree too,with time,even if I think we can't get used to it,we can manage it better.

Angelina

Ines Order is the basis.

i am well aware of this, i am a very structured person myself. but i have often noticed that when separating the topics, the "thread" often tears out of the topic where the new topic comes from. do you understand what i mean?

I would like to say again that I have a great respect for the work that @Laura and you do, but you should pay attention to that a little bit 🙂

Tim

i don't think that i will ever become a sociopath, because i don't have a problem with other people. i can continue to form bonds and keep them for a long time. i've known my best friend for almost 10 years now and we still like each other very much 🙂 . as i have said many times before, i believe that we (all people) have to learn to control ourselves better. we have to try to allow all positive emotions and to remove all negative emotions, then we can be happy. this is what i tried with my chastity equipment. Of course it bothers me and it is sometimes very hard when I am sexually aroused, but I can accept it better now.

Tim

Angelina That is how we are different. It was difficult for me to learn to move past what I felt were injustices caused by other people, not just unfair events.

When that isn't a problem, the amount the human brain is willing to learn to live with is very surprising. It's an adaptation from when humans lived in hunter-gatherer tribes without control over their environments, and it might be fatal to the whole tribe if someone who was lucky enough to survive being crippled by a lion died later from depression.

At the same time, it's a very dangerous ability, because it evolved in a time when personal tragedies were almost always permanent. Our brains "accept what we cannot change" so fully that, when the opportunity for change arises, we aren't properly motivated anymore. Governments and big companies rely on this all the time.

It reminds me of a quote by George Bernard Shaw.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

Accept what you really can't change, but always question your sense of what should be normal. We humans are very bad at that.

Angelina

Tim

well you can at least be sure that I don't get psychological problems from my equipment, because then I would be in psychiatry instead of my equipment 🙂

Vanessa Let us know if you manage it.😉

i will try to negotiate again in a few weeks 😉

Vanessa but the other parts of our lives are pretty good!🙂

that's exactly what i'm trying to explain. it seems to me that he is very negative about the situations, especially what he wrote about @Sara2001 is a very negative representation 🙁

Tim

Vanessa We're not the only ones in this situation here,if you talk about reluctantly wearing a chastity belt.

That's true. I think it might be that you two are the ones I am most aware of because you, @Ines, and @Sara2001 talk the most, and I don't feel I have so much trouble understanding Ines and Sara2001.

@Ines has very different opinions than I do, but I can imagine being her. @Sara2001's submissive nature is something I understand I am not and will never be, and I can trust the word of psychological experts that "humans do work this way and here's why", so I feel comfortable that she is different enough that I don't need to be able to imagine being her.

You two exist in the middle. Just familiar enough that I can relate to you, but making decisions I know I would not be able to make, so I'm stuck with an urge to understand you in a way that might not be impossible.

Angelina that's exactly what i'm trying to explain. it seems to me that he is very negative about the situations, especially what he wrote about @Sara2001 is a very negative representation 🙁

I did say I was like @Esteban and @BikelockFugitive in a lot of ways. I believe that you shouldn't have to choose like that. I believe it is immoral for someone to make the good things in your life conditional on giving up bodily autonomy like that. I believe it is immoral to impose different rules on someone for something outside their control like their gender.

I say you feel alien because I know I would think it was unjust if I was in your situation and I would not be able to ignore or forgive that. It's just how my brain is built. For @Sara2001's situation, I can't help how I feel, but I'll try not to bring it up.

I don't want to dwell on these kinds of things because I don't think it will be productive to discuss "Is how you live right?" instead of exploring "How do you live?". When I discuss "what is right?", I'm always terrified that I will offend someone or make them less willing to speak candidly with me

This is exactly why I wanted to leave that sort of talk to Esteban and BikelockFugitive and focus on other things.

It's your life and, as wrong as it would be if I was living it, it isn't my place to judge you and trying to judge you would just make it harder for me to learn.

Looking back, when I said "I definitely have opinions." I was too eager to prove it and that paragraph sabotaged my goal of learning to understand you better more than it helped to show how differently I see things.

If you are willing, I would like to just take it for granted that this is something I am unlikely to ever fully understand and focus instead on things we can make more progress on.

Saintprudence

Tim Looking back, when I said "I definitely have opinions." I was too eager to prove it and that paragraph sabotaged my goal of learning to understand you better more than it helped to show how differently I see things.

That shows a great deal of insight and self-awareness. Well done.

on some level, a lot of us here struggle with the implications of this place. Even the fully convinced wearers sometimes worry about if the advice they give will lead to some other belted person being treated badly by a keyholder.

Angelina

Tim You two exist in the middle.

well i will try to put it very simply. i do not have to be submissive to wear a belt, but that does not mean that i wear the belt voluntarily. i do it for two reasons. out of fear of the consequences if i would not do it and out of respect for my father. In contrast to Sara (who was brought up to be submissive), I was brought up to be "controlling". I adopt many of my father's character traits, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with him on everything

Tim to impose different rules on someone for something outside their control like their gender.

but it is not out of his control, that is the difference. whether it is immoral is something we can argue about (we have been doing that here in the forum since its existence)

Tim It's your life and, as wrong as it would be if I was living it, it isn't my place to judge you and trying to judge you would just make it harder for me to learn.

well you don't have to judge me but you can try to understand my views. i understand why you think so, it's easy to understand because 99% of people would agree with you. then there are people like sara or ines who by their nature see it differently and there are people like vanessa or me who see it differentiated

Tim I am unlikely to ever fully understand and focus instead on things we can make more progress on.

so am i and i don't think you need to understand it completely. we explain our thought processes and you can draw your own conclusions 🙂

Tim

Saintprudence That shows a great deal of insight and self-awareness. Well done.

I wish I could accept your praise, but that's normal for me. My impulsiveness will find a moment when my vigilance wavers, and then I'll notice hours or days later and attempt to run damage control.

For me, knowing is half the battle at best, and what you're praising was a necessary survival skill.

Angelina well i will try to put it very simply. i do not have to be submissive to wear a belt, but that does not mean that i wear the belt voluntarily. i do it for two reasons. out of fear of the consequences if i would not do it and out of respect for my father. In contrast to Sara (who was brought up to be submissive), I was brought up to be "controlling". I adopt many of my father's character traits, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with him on everything

That's the "in the middle". Your views seem so familiar that I can't understand how you can respect him when I could not in your situation.

Angelina but it is not out of his control, that is the difference. whether it is immoral is something we can argue about (we have been doing that here in the forum since its existence)

You are female. That's outside of your control but you have extra restrictions placed on you because of it and I believe that's immoral.

Angelina so am i and i don't think you need to understand it completely. we explain our thought processes and you can draw your own conclusions 🙂

As long as we don't make each other too uncomfortable to keep learning or waste time talking in circles, I'm will be happy with that.

Vanessa

Angelina i do not have to be submissive to wear a belt, but that does not mean that i wear the belt voluntarily.

I agree.

Angelina i do not feel uncomfortable with it, this forum has helped me a lot to deal better with my situation and also to get to know different perspectives on the topic chastity 🙂

I think it is the case for many people here,and that's good that the board can help us.

Tim And I wouldn't in your situation.

Each people probably would react differently.

Alex

Welcome!

Angelina your father's statement is very unclear

I agree.It makes him able to decide how long @Alex would have to wear it without any explanation.

Angelina

Tim Your views seem so familiar that I can't understand how you can respect him when I could not in your situation.

this is probably because my father has taken care of me alone since i was a baby. he is my role model. that's why i respect him so much that i also accept things (like the belt) that i hate

Tim You are female. That's outside of your control but you have extra restrictions placed on you because of it and I believe that's immoral.

as i said, it is the basic discussion in this forum and i don't think we will find a result. for me it makes no difference that i am female. if i were a boy my father would act the same way

Tim As long as we don't make each other too uncomfortable to keep learning or waste time talking in circles, I'm will be happy with that.

i do not feel uncomfortable with it, this forum has helped me a lot to deal better with my situation and also to get to know different perspectives on the topic chastity 🙂

Ines

Angelina if i were a boy my father would act the same way

I never believe it.

Tim

Angelina this is probably because my father has taken care of me alone since i was a baby. he is my role model. that's why i respect him so much that i also accept things (like the belt) that i hate

And I wouldn't in your situation. I would either resent him or be like @Sara2001. That's just how my brain works.

I wouldn't be able to respect him without embracing the idea as fully as @Sara2001 does.

Ines I never believe it.

I can't either.

Angelina

Ines I never believe it.

we will never know if it is true 😂

Tim And I wouldn't in your situation. I would either resent him or be like @Sara2001. That's just how my brain works.

now as i have often written, the consequences are extremely hard and even if i hate the belt, it is not worth starting a "family war"

Sara2001

Tim And I wouldn't in your situation. I would either resent him or be like @Sara2001. That's just how my brain works.

Sorry, I ignored this conversation until now, but it looks like you have many questions to me. Please feel free to ask. But maybe not in the introduction thread 🙂

Tim

Angelina now as i have often written, the consequences are extremely hard and even if i hate the belt, it is not worth starting a "family war"

I would probably think the same way, but feeling respect and acting respectful are not the same thing.

If I was in your situation, I would act respectful, but I would not want to keep up the relationship after I became independent. That's the difference between us.

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