new moderator for Unwedchastity
Especially in Germany the risk is valid for moderators as well.
In German law there is that weird concept of 'Störerhaftung'. Essentially, if there is something German prosecutors consider illegal here and as moderator you are able to remove that but don't do it, you can be charged with passively supporting that what you have not acted upon and removed.
Usually prosecutors would target the owner, but if she is out of reach and moderators fall under German jurisdiction, guess what they might do.
Maybe ultimately you would win arguing freedom of speech, but it could be a very long case through multiple levels of courts and being a moderator is not worth the risk.
The US actually has some of the strongest protections in place for these situations. Companies were being hit with frivolous lawsuits in attempting to moderate content, while the "Wild West" approach was letting them off scot-free. This was making the internet far more offensive and obscene (and more importantly reducing the revenue of advertisers.) So bipartisan lawmakers under pressure from their corporate puppetmasters crafted the 1996 Communications Decency Act which holds that wesites not responsible for what their users post.
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/21/1157683233/supreme-court-google-twitter-section-230
There is quite a robust debate in this country on whether or not Section 230 of the 1996 Communications Decency Act should be abolished or amended.
WriterAlexis When I think of the history of censoring obscene content in America, this song from Tom Lehrer comes to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaHDBL7dVgs
What are the expected duties and responsibilities of a moderator here?
WriterAlexis
I am well awate that free speech in the US has a legal standing that makes it pretty much impossible to go after forum owners or moderators.
But @Joh is, according to his profile, from Germany and legal standards there are different.
He would have significant legal exposure as moderator, so that warning stands.
curious Out of curiosity, is this a theoretical concern, or is it something German prosecutors have actually done in the past?
Thank you for your concern but in the end I have to decide how high will be the risk and how likely will it be that a German government organisation will contact me.
pestulens
This principle of 'Störerhaftung' has been used many times, though in other context.
When you open your wifi in Germany as a private person and someone else used this open wifi for things illegal in Germany (even something rather harmless than file sharing of copyrighted material, the owner of that wifi point is held liable. Even if he can proof that it was not he who actually did the file sharing. Not protecting your wifi against abuse leads to being held resonsonsible for what other people do with it.
Same thing for people running discussion boards. And it is easy to see that if the owner is out of reach authorities will go after the next best target - moderators - if they can.
Joh
You are aware that you leave a trace wherever you go online? You have an email address with a German ISP. They certainly have records about the IP addresses that accessed the account which leads to your mobile or Internet carrier who has records which IP your device had at any given time.
Easy enough to identify someone when you can access those information.
curious Maybe ultimately you would win arguing freedom of speech,
i would rather say the moderator would win because he can't be held responsible because he has no rights to the forum, this is the sole responsibility of the owner. a moderator is not responsible to the outside world but only has to work internally to enforce the rules of the forum. to be clear, if illegal content is posted a moderator can't be held responsible if it would be allowed under the rules of the forum
curious He would have significant legal exposure as moderator, so that warning stands.
but we are not a german forum, so the legal situation in germany is irrelevant
Joh @Laue and I would first have to talk about her expectations and my tasks with framework conditions. If we come to a common denominator, I would be willing to do it.
@Laura what do you think? in the end you have to decide
curious Not protecting your wifi against abuse leads to being held resonsonsible for what other people do with it.
ok, now i want to see proof of that. then theoretically it would be possible that i, as the owner of our wifi, would be responsible if my wife did illegal things on the internet?
Angelina Countries like to maintain control over their citizens and do what they can to prevent their citizens from shpping for more favorable jurisdictions. If they truly want to combat what gets posted on this site, they will go after any person with a shred of responsibility they can get their hands on, whether you or I feel that is justified or not.
This can have some unforeseen results, like when an 18-year-old British boy was planning to visit his slightly younger long-distant boyfriend in France and was at risk of falling afoul of British sex tourism laws, created with the idea of middle-aged men buying an underage hooker's services in some small island country, despite French age-of-consent laws being met and the couple's relationship being that of a loving, enthusiastically consenting couple.
For a more recent and visible example, see the EU's attempts to enforce GDPR compliance on US-run sites.
That said, I believe curious is also overestimating the exposure a bit. Sure, ISPs can see that you are interacting with the site, but that is about all the info that can be gotten out of them. You need access to UWC's servers to do much more, and while that certainly is possible, authorities have bigger fish to fry than going through that effort to go after a place that has nothing more problematic than misterpoll.
Angelina but we are not a german forum, so the legal situation in germany is irrelevant
I am afraid that's wrong.
Legal principle in Germany is, that a case must be filed with the court where the law breaking happened. When it comes to the Internet, that means wherever you can read the content. In other words, because you can read the forum from everywhere in Germany, as. Prosecutor you can file charges in any court you like.
Where the forum is hosted or owned is irrelevant, where it can be read, only that matters.
youdontknowme see the EU's attempts to enforce GDPR compliance on US-run sites.
I can't claim to know every instance of this, but most of the ones I am familiar with all deal with multinational corporations that do buisness in Europe. IE they have corporate branches and servers in EU countries, accept payment in euros through EU banks, ship goods to European customers from warehouses located in Europe, and/or make active efforts to maintain a European customer base. Very different than a site like this where the only connection to the EU is that some people from the EU connect to it.
Of course, if someone is a German citizen and/or is in Germany when they connect to this site then they are bound by German law and can be prosecuted if their conduct here breaks it, but I can't really speak to how that might go since I am nether German nor a lawyer, let alone a German Lawyer.
Laura I need someone who has enough time
That is always the sticking point. I would be willing to devote some time to the health of this community but I couldn't do it on my own and I don't think many of us could. Maby a team of part-time volunteers could manage it but then someone needs to manage the team.