Chastity contract

youdontknowme

Sasha Honestly I have little confidence in the legal system of a country where parents can call up an organization to kidnap their children and take them to a conversion camp to defend the rights of offspring against their parents. Then again, the USA are 50+ countries in a trenchcoat, so I guess there are probably some states where you can have more faith.

Milord

youdontknowme
I n California I read of what seemed to me a very good bill
https://msmagazine.com/2023/08/31/california-court-coercive-control-restraining-order-domestic-violence/#:~:text=Gavin%20Newsom%20(D)%20signed%20Senate,personal%20liberty.%E2%80%9D%20On%20Aug.

Basically coercive control is considered domestic violence

Sasha

youdontknowme This is

youdontknowme Then again, the USA are 50+ countries in a trenchcoat

This is a very good analogy. There are some ultra conservative states which defend that nonsense, and would uphold a parents “rights” to do so. They are an exception though not the rule. Most states would not allow such things.
What may give a weird impression though is how periodically a prosecutor will dig out some odd, seldom used law to convict on. And there are plenty of those still in the books. Sodomy and corporal punishment in schools being among them. Rarely if ever used, but still there all the same

WriterAlexis

youdontknowme

the USA are 50+ countries in a trenchcoat

I'm stealing this.

Milord

youdontknowme That should be something you are intimately familiar with, @Milord.

Recently my wife used her safe word. I immediately stopped anything, i paused being Master and I'm offering all the support I can do. Immediately, no question asked. Right now, as we talk, we are not Master and slave. She's not belted, but in case, I would have immediately removed the belt. In my opinion this is how this should work

youdontknowme

Milord That is exactly the right thing for a dom to do.

Sasha

Milord As far as I know, and I’m speculating as there’s no case law I’m aware of, no judge would uphold it. That much is certain.
Between 2 adults if the wearer were to become unwilling and it isn’t removed the most likely charge would be either simple or sexual battery.
In a parental child relationship child abuse or endangerment would be the likely charge.
What makes this an interesting situation though is, I can forfeit various constitutional rights and later reclaim them as easily as I waived them. Which makes me think that a court wouldn’t take such a situation lightly, but also wouldn’t be considering serious penalties for it either.

Milord

Sasha can forfeit various constitutional rights and later reclaim them as easily as I waived them

forfeiting constitutional rights is not the same as forfeiting unalianable rights. In Italy you can renounce to certain kind of immunity, but you can't renounce to freedom.

Anyway I'm very grateful for providing this insights

WriterAlexis

Milord

In addition to all the charges Sasha brings up, your other big hammer, (because it is called a "slave" contract) depending on exactly what types of activities this slave is required to perform, it could run afoul of the 13th Amendment.

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Now I don't know of any cases linking this to a D/s arrangement. But it would make for an interesting hearing. The closest I am aware of it being invoked was for cases of conservatorship where conservatees wanted out.

I have heard of a situation where an 18 year old in Kansas did sign a slave contract, abuse happened, and the abuser took a plea for 20 years for a federal charge of "enticing a minor into illegal sexual conduct." There were conspiracy and sex trafficking charges against additional defendants, including his wife. My memory is hazy, but I believe chastity piercings may have been involved.

Milord

WriterAlexis The closest I am aware of it being invoked was for cases of conservatorship where conservatees wanted out.

I learned something new, because we haven't such a thing in Italy. “Tutela” and “curatela” are institution enforced by the judge on parental request, not something you can ask for yourself

Thank you very much to you too

Milord

WriterAlexis

Found it I think

DISCLAIMER: description of sadomasochism

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdmo/pr/human-traficking-rescue-project-0

WriterAlexis

Milord

Horrifying.

Sasha

Milord There are some truly evil people in this world

Angelina

wow, interesting to read the discussion, I was the first to write something about it back then because I wrote down a lot of the rules at home with my father in contracts. I would like to address 3 points

Of course, these contracts have no legal binding force in any civilized country in the world. A father could never go to court to force his daughter to wear a belt because she signed a contract, and that's a good thing. Exactly the same applies to slave contracts or something similar. There is a fundamental right to sexual freedom and if one party wants to get out of the contract, the key age must legally open the belt immediately because there is no longer a consensus.
These contracts should have value within the family; they should be symbolic of the decisions made within the family. If a deadline is agreed, i.e. a time during which the belt must still be worn after the contract has been terminated, this should be adhered to, even if it is not legally binding, simply to avoid hasty decisions.
The only legal way, in my opinion, would be if there was permission from the state for parents to put a belt on their children if a court authorized this, but that's just theory, there are no such laws in any western country

Milord

Angelina If a deadline is agreed, i.e. a time during which the belt must still be worn after the contract has been terminated, this should be adhered to, even if it is not legally binding, simply to avoid hasty decisions.

I try to act everytime on my own honor, so let me express my opinion. Acting honorably is something that can be morally, not legally, requested, only if the word has been freely given. Noone is bound to respect a pact he feel he has been forced to adhere, and this is strictly personal view.

Angelina Of course, these contracts have no legal binding force in any civilized country in the world.

Not only they are no legal binding. They are not existent. They will not even arrive to the court because the contractor will possible (not always) be arrested before. Its like a contract in which I agree, for a sum of money, to help you killing yourself. I will be arrested and the fact that you asked for it changes nothing at all.

Angelina The only legal way, in my opinion, would be if there was permission from the state for parents to put a belt on their children if a court authorized this, but that's just theory, there are no such laws in any western country

I can't imagine a single situation in which this apply. Anything I can think for will probably be taken care in hospital or clinic. And a chastity belt is not a medical item.

youdontknowme

Milord Not only they are no legal binding. They are not existent. They will not even arrive to the court because the contractor will possible (not always) be arrested before. Its like a contract in which I agree, for a sum of money, to help you killing yourself. I will be arrested and the fact that you asked for it changes nothing at all.

Over here assisting in suicide is illegal, but less criminal than murder or manslaughter. So such a contract would have merit as evidence that the perpetrator was engaging in assisted suicide, not homicide.

Angelina

Milord Noone is bound to respect a pact he feel he has been forced to adhere, and this is strictly personal view.

of course nobody is obliged to comply with this, but i always say that decisions have consequences and i think it makes sense to stick to what has been agreed beforehand

Milord

i think laws on assisted suicide should be changed and at least partially decriminalised, but from my point of view this has nothing to do with chastity contracts

Milord

youdontknowme
No, I'm sorry. It will be exactly the same, because a piece of paper can be signed under constriction and there is no guarantees. Think about it, every murder will force the victim, or forge it.
There will be investigations, and if from them it comes that it's support to suicide accusation will be changed accordingly.
But I duly take notes, and will use another example in the future 😆

Milord

Angelina of course nobody is obliged to comply with this, but i always say that decisions have consequences and i think it makes sense to stick to what has been agreed beforehand

Accepting to submit to an unfair decision taken by someone exploiting children's vulnerability has consequences too, often far worse than rebellion to toxic parenthood.
While my parents were not toxic at all, rebelling against their decision has been one of the best things I’ve done in all my life.

Milord

Angelina

Not having a daughter by yourself, I draw scenarios useful to explain my point, that is: enforcement is impossible even with a pact in place. The original point is that an adult daughter have to stick with the pact she asked for. I show you that this is plainly wrong, and will just damage the relationship. This is the point I was trying to prove, and nothing you write here disproves it, on the contrary , you agree with me.

Angelina of course nobody is obliged to comply with this, but i always say that decisions have consequences and i think it makes sense to stick to what has been agreed beforehand

In this post you refer to “consequences” should she refuse to stick with agreement, and I show you that consequences are relationships damage and pushing your daughter away from you. That’s all.

Angelina

Milord

but you do realise that in the contracts i'm talking about, the children signed the contract voluntarily? so it was the children's wish to make this deal. of course you can't force anyone, but i can of course encourage my children to honour what they themselves wanted. it's just a matter of them not making a decision out of a spontaneous reaction but having time to think about what they really want or rather no longer want

Milord

Angelina

No, this is not how parenting works, not at all

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