Resisting Parental Coercion

Ines

Joh real but some show a consistence in writing which is unlikely to be a fiction

I think it is likely a fantasy.

Joh

Ines I think it is likely a fantasy.

Sorry, I have to disagree.
The world has all nice and bad aspect you can think about.

As an example have a look at the Child sexual abuse statistic from Germany. 2019 was it 15.701 registered cases.
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/38415/umfrage/sexueller-missbrauch-von-kindern-seit-1999/

Ines

Joh
Yes, of course it happens and is terrible, but, wear a chastity belt, and (sorry, are you wearer too?), hidden it when one is younger, is impossible, at the end a teacher, a mate will discover it Yes or Yes, and that mate will tell to her parents... And and and...
Those sad 15.000 abuses are reported to authorities.

Joh

Ines (sorry, are you wearer too?)

No.

Angelina

@Foxies

thank you for your answer, i have now roughly read over everything that has been written here in the thread (and am somewhat overwhelmed), some people here do not seem to understand that there are many levels between good and evil, between right and wrong, which are not firmly fixed. i think some posts miss the goal. that is why i am out of this thread at this point.

(but of course I will continue to read everything)

Joh

Angelina i think some posts miss the goal

I agree with you.

Angelina there are many levels between good and evil, between right and wrong, which are not firmly fixed

Yes, it is not onyl black and white but we have boundaries we can not change without getting in conflict with the law.

Angelina

Joh we have boundaries we can not change without getting in conflict with the law.

that was also a point i meant when i wrote some have missed the goal

But I think we could discuss this for several years and not come to a unified result. 😂

Joh

Angelina But I think we could discuss this for several years and not come to a unified result.

Maybe you'll come to the realisation of wanting to live in democracy instead of against democracy. It exists as a whole and not just in bits and pieces as it suits you.

RafaelGV

Angelina
I'll be the first to admit I missed the mark. The whole thing is new to me. I'm still trying to sort this stuff out in my head. I see this as a contrast between the rights of parents and children. I also wonder whether or not the government should intervene. Maybe they should or maybe they shouldn't.

Angelina

Joh Maybe you'll come to the realisation of wanting to live in democracy instead of against democracy.

I will fight for this politically 😉

RafaelGV I see this as a contrast between the rights of parents and children.

RafaelGV I also wonder whether or not the government should intervene.

a question on both
do you think the government knows what is good for families better than the families themselves? i don't think so.

Joh @Angelina decided not to go because the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

that and that i think such things should be settled within the families. i definitely don't agree with everything my father does, but whenever i think about such ideas i try to put myself in the parents' shoes. i wouldn't want the state to tell me how to raise my child either. i would never use a chastity belt against my child's will, but i would also never let the state tell me what rules i should set up for my child in my home.

Joh

RafaelGV I also wonder whether or not the government should intervene. Maybe they should or maybe they shouldn't.

This is depended on the country where you live. Different counties different law.
If you talk about what is the right way what you believe which should it be we can discuss.
I come back what I wrote in another posting. The law of the country you are live is the frame in which you can move and decide. As I wrote above for Germany is a clear law what the parents can do or not whit their children. If you don't like it you can work forward to change the law. Nevertheless the law applied to you if you like it or not.
The law state you do not need to go to the police to report it. This is only mandatory for capital and terrorist crimes. @Angelina decided not to go because the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

RafaelGV

Joh If you don't like it you can work forward to change the law. Nevertheless the law applied to you if you like it or not.

I Agree. Here the contrast between the rights of parents and children is considered.

Joh If you talk about what is the right way what you believe which should it be we can discuss.

I usually try to be neutral, but this time I'll share my opinion.

I believe that parents who force someone to wear a device are moralistic people. They make their child chaste and thus virtuous. In some cases, the parents are breaking the law and certainly violating the norms of their culture. The parents show a violation of the norms in the name of purity, this is not virtuous. Violations of the law must show a significant moral deficit. Parents expect their child to respect their authority, while parents do not respect the authoritarian nature of their culture. By that I mean this: some things are socially unacceptable, and even the most defiant parents need to follow norms to some extent. My personal belief is that society limits people, and it makes sense that parenting can also be restricted in some ways. In this sense, why should the child respect the wishes of his parents when the parents cannot respect the norms of their culture and the law? How can the parent do this? Is it a superpower or do I need a special ID? Can that free me from the standards of my culture? If that's the case, I'll pretend my culture and laws are a dollar menu in a restaurant. I can choose which laws I want to follow. I can choose which part of my culture I want to emulate and vice versa. While this is true, I can actually choose whether to obey the law and my culture. I can be ostracized and maybe even arrested if I'm not careful. Parents are not exempt from this; There is no superpower or special I.D.

Joh

Angelina I will fight for this politically

That is the right way I support and will do my best that it will not changed.

Angelina i would also never let the state tell me what rules i should set up for my child in my home.

I know but until the law may change it can be that the state steps in.

RafaelGV

Angelina do you think the government knows what is good for families better than the families themselves? i don't think so.

How did you come to this conclusion? At seventeen you have a political opinion, that's not unusual, is it your own opinion or something your father made you believe?

RafaelGV

Angelina You seem to be an Austro-Libertarian. If you are an Austro-Libertarian, I would think that you are familiar with the 'Non-aggression principle'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

Jen

Joh to me it is normal to call the place I live my house.

Angelina i would never use a chastity belt against my child's will, but i would also never let the state tell me what rules i should set up for my child in my home.

What if somebody wrote that they would force it and that they wouldn't let the state say what rules are ok? Do you think in that situation the law override the parents?
Your sentence above is scary - if that is how you think then I see that is how it is in your house because you learn ideas like that from your family.

What if it is against the will really but the parents have manipulated you to think it is not. How much can parents manipulate before it is against the will and state should get involved?

It has been very different for me. I think Mum thought I would just agree, maybe because I always agreed to wait till marriage. But after refusing it has not been the big arguments and punishments like people here said. It is more Mum being very unhappy. What is also different is I would not say state can't say what rules are ok in home and my parents wouldn't say it later.

Angelina

Joh That is the right way I support and will do my best that it will not changed.

I expected that 😉

Joh I know but until the law may change it can be that the state steps in.

not in my house 😂

RafaelGV is it your own opinion or something your father made you believe?

this is my own opinion, of course there are cases of physical violence that i do not consider to be tolerable, but nowadays the state already interferes in education if it is not in conformity with the system and i consider that wrong.

RafaelGV You seem to be an Austro-Libertarian. If you are an Austro-Libertarian, I would think that you are familiar with the 'Non-aggression principle'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

i'm not sure if austria libertarian is right, rather just libertarian or economic libertarian. although that only applies to public life. in private i'm rather conservative

Vanessa

Jen

It is not easy for me,I'm a bit "shy",not at ease,to discuss about sexuality and chastity with my parents,but,sometimes it is needed,and often useful,even if unpleasant.

Joh

Probably until I agree about wearing it again(with more restrictions,probably),or until I get married.

As I think they're sure it is for my own good(even if I disagree),I don't doubt they care for me.

Joh I have it as well from time to time.

Logical.Even for willing wearers,it is still hard,sometimes.

Joh

Angelina not in my house

Wow. You are the owner of the house. 🤣

RafaelGV

Angelina this is my own opinion, of course there are cases of physical violence that i do not consider to be tolerable

I agree, that makes sense.

Angelina but nowadays the state already interferes in education if it is not in conformity with the system and i consider that wrong.

I am not familiar with Germany's education system, what interference are you referring to?

Angelina i'm not sure if austria libertarian is right, rather just libertarian or economic libertarian. although that only applies to public life. in private i'm rather conservative

That makes sense to me. I'm a social liberal but conservative personally.

Angelina

Joh Wow. You are the owner of the house. 🤣

of course not, but you understand what i mean 😉 besides, it will probably be my house someday

Joh

Angelina of course not, but you understand what i mean 😉 besides, it will probably be my house someday

Than write in our house. 😉

Angelina

Joh Than write in our house. 😉

right, whereas i plan to buy my own house later on 😉

RafaelGV I am not familiar with Germany's education system, what interference are you referring to?

it is difficult to describe, especially because for me it is only a feeling, others would strongly disagree with me.

Jen What if somebody wrote that they would force it and that they wouldn't let the state say what rules are ok? Do you think in that situation the law override the parents?

it depends, some things are not acceptable, corporal punishment for example, but it is always a struggle to find the red lines. the law exempts bad things and prohibits things that are useful. it is of course a balancing act but in general i can stick to what i have written.

Jen How much can parents manipulate before it is against the will and state should get involved?

of course our parents can manipulate us, but so can also the state. we have to decide who we believe more.

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