Resisting Parental Coercion

Joh

Angelina not in my house

Wow. You are the owner of the house. 🤣

Angelina

Joh Wow. You are the owner of the house. 🤣

of course not, but you understand what i mean 😉 besides, it will probably be my house someday

Joh

Angelina of course not, but you understand what i mean 😉 besides, it will probably be my house someday

Than write in our house. 😉

Jen

Joh to me it is normal to call the place I live my house.

Angelina i would never use a chastity belt against my child's will, but i would also never let the state tell me what rules i should set up for my child in my home.

What if somebody wrote that they would force it and that they wouldn't let the state say what rules are ok? Do you think in that situation the law override the parents?
Your sentence above is scary - if that is how you think then I see that is how it is in your house because you learn ideas like that from your family.

What if it is against the will really but the parents have manipulated you to think it is not. How much can parents manipulate before it is against the will and state should get involved?

It has been very different for me. I think Mum thought I would just agree, maybe because I always agreed to wait till marriage. But after refusing it has not been the big arguments and punishments like people here said. It is more Mum being very unhappy. What is also different is I would not say state can't say what rules are ok in home and my parents wouldn't say it later.

Angelina

Joh Than write in our house. 😉

right, whereas i plan to buy my own house later on 😉

RafaelGV I am not familiar with Germany's education system, what interference are you referring to?

it is difficult to describe, especially because for me it is only a feeling, others would strongly disagree with me.

Jen What if somebody wrote that they would force it and that they wouldn't let the state say what rules are ok? Do you think in that situation the law override the parents?

it depends, some things are not acceptable, corporal punishment for example, but it is always a struggle to find the red lines. the law exempts bad things and prohibits things that are useful. it is of course a balancing act but in general i can stick to what i have written.

Jen How much can parents manipulate before it is against the will and state should get involved?

of course our parents can manipulate us, but so can also the state. we have to decide who we believe more.

RafaelGV

Angelina this is my own opinion, of course there are cases of physical violence that i do not consider to be tolerable

I agree, that makes sense.

Angelina but nowadays the state already interferes in education if it is not in conformity with the system and i consider that wrong.

I am not familiar with Germany's education system, what interference are you referring to?

Angelina i'm not sure if austria libertarian is right, rather just libertarian or economic libertarian. although that only applies to public life. in private i'm rather conservative

That makes sense to me. I'm a social liberal but conservative personally.

RafaelGV

Joh If you don't like it you can work forward to change the law. Nevertheless the law applied to you if you like it or not.

I Agree. Here the contrast between the rights of parents and children is considered.

Joh If you talk about what is the right way what you believe which should it be we can discuss.

I usually try to be neutral, but this time I'll share my opinion.

I believe that parents who force someone to wear a device are moralistic people. They make their child chaste and thus virtuous. In some cases, the parents are breaking the law and certainly violating the norms of their culture. The parents show a violation of the norms in the name of purity, this is not virtuous. Violations of the law must show a significant moral deficit. Parents expect their child to respect their authority, while parents do not respect the authoritarian nature of their culture. By that I mean this: some things are socially unacceptable, and even the most defiant parents need to follow norms to some extent. My personal belief is that society limits people, and it makes sense that parenting can also be restricted in some ways. In this sense, why should the child respect the wishes of his parents when the parents cannot respect the norms of their culture and the law? How can the parent do this? Is it a superpower or do I need a special ID? Can that free me from the standards of my culture? If that's the case, I'll pretend my culture and laws are a dollar menu in a restaurant. I can choose which laws I want to follow. I can choose which part of my culture I want to emulate and vice versa. While this is true, I can actually choose whether to obey the law and my culture. I can be ostracized and maybe even arrested if I'm not careful. Parents are not exempt from this; There is no superpower or special I.D.

a_father

Jen It is more Mum being very unhappy.

She will understand and be happy again. If parents cannot assert themselves, they always try to use the emotional rail. 'You make me very unhappy, if you don't wear the belt.' But, don't forget, if you wear it, she will be happy and you are unhappy. And even if you are unhappy for years, they don't change their mind. Important is only their happyness. You don't care. They pretend understanding you, but don't unlock you. @Angelina is the best example. But you don't get back your sexuality by understanding.

Joh

Jen What if somebody wrote that they would force it and that they wouldn't let the state say what rules are ok? Do you think in that situation the law override the parents?
Your sentence above is scary - if that is how you think then I see that is how it is in your house because you learn ideas like that from your family.

The law is standing above the opinion of the parents. Nevertheless if nobody inform the authority nothing will happen.

Jen What if it is against the will really but the parents have manipulated you to think it is not. How much can parents manipulate before it is against the will and state should get involved?

If parents get their children to wear a CB they have successful manipulated their children. If the authority don't know about the situation nothing will happen.

Jen I think Mum thought I would just agree, maybe because I always agreed to wait till marriage. But after refusing it has not been the big arguments and punishments like people here said.

For me it looks like you have a stronger will to fight for your right and you mother will not go over limits.
Other parents know they break the law but do not care like @Angelina's or @Sara2001 father. Although Sara and her sister get corporal punishment every Sunday they think it is ok because their parents love them and it for their best.

Jen What is also different is I would not say state can't say what rules are ok in home and my parents wouldn't say it later.

What will you say with that?

RafaelGV

Angelina of course our parents can manipulate us, but so can also the state. we have to decide who we believe more.

Speaking from the United States, I know for a fact it's not up to me whether the state can influence parenting, they can.
Children protective services (CPS) has the authority to correct and instruct parents on what is acceptable.

Angelina

RafaelGV on what is acceptable.

and that is exactly the point, how do these child protection services know exactly what is acceptable, that is always an individual question and the generalisation does not do justice to the individual needs of children and teenagers. i know i sound very abstract, as soon as i think of concrete examples i will try to describe it more precisely

Joh Although Sara and her sister get corporal punishment every Sunday they think it is ok because their parents love them and it for their best.

and that, for example, would be something that would not be acceptable to me, but that's the point. the state tries to regulate things in general that cannot be regulated in general.

Joh

Angelina the state tries to regulate things in general that cannot be regulated in general.

The state can't do much if nobody has the backbone to inform them.

Angelina

Joh The state can't do much if nobody has the backbone to inform them.

what does it mean to have a backbone, i'm glad the state can't do as much as it would like if it doesn't have the information, it's for the best because family matters are still generally said to be private matters.

Joh

Angelina
The state can't do much if nobody has the backbone to inform them.
Der Staat kann nicht viel tun, wenn niemand das Rückgrat hat, ihn zu informieren.

Situations like yours would not happen if someone would inform the authority at the binning of the situation. Now you stuck in it and decided The disadvantages outweigh the advantages.
It is the job of the government to regulate what should be.

Angelina

Joh Der Staat kann nicht viel tun, wenn niemand das Rückgrat hat, ihn zu informieren.

that was meant sarcastically, sorry if that was not clear

Joh It is the job of the government to regulate what should be.

Joh Now you stuck in it and decided The disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

aha, so i should have more disadvantages than advantages just because the government thinks it knows better?

Joh

Angelina aha, so i should have more disadvantages than advantages just because the government thinks it knows better?

Com on, you are able to think further than to the tip of your nose.
If the state would acted at the time you father introduce the CB and would prevent it you would not stuck in this situation. I suppose you relation to you father would also a good one. You would have many discussion about chastity until marriage and tho on. And it could also possible you would following your father wish to keep it. Nevertheless you had more freedom and fun.

Angelina

Joh

so first of all i understand what you mean, but i can't really believe it. i have a certain distrust of state institutions, i admit that, but as i said this is a difficult question. now the situation is as it is and i try to make the best of it, but within the family.

Joh

Angelina so first of all i understand what you mean, but i can't really believe it. i have a certain distrust of state institutions, i admit that, but as i said this is a difficult question. now the situation is as it is and i try to make the best of it, but within the family.

This nice that you understand and I know that you make the best out of the situation. I hope it will improve with your birthday.

Angelina

Joh This nice that you understand and I know that you make the best out of the situation. I hope it will improve with your birthday.

thank you you will get a small report (I also wrote it last year, you can find it under "New Rules" ) 😉

Joh

Angelina
I keep my fingers crossed that it will improve.

Angelina

Joh I keep my fingers crossed that it will improve.

thank you 🙂

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