Chastity Belt Design Innovations

youdontknowme

George Yeah, the only context in which such invasive controls of someone's sex life, ultraconservatism and a garment that shows off the "goods" together made sense to my mind was the one where a daughter gets traded for ten goats and three camels. Glad to hear that the clear shield was actually her idea and not that of her parents.

WriterAlexis

George

I think it can be the case even in mainline Protestantism, depending which part of the country it is in.

Mostly, I gleefully watch as the various churches devour themselves in a foregone culture war, and we steadily secularize in the fashion of western Europe.

George

WriterAlexis we steadily secularize in the fashion of western Europe.

Sorry, but from looking in from the outside you don't. Even most American atheists show social religious conventions. (While in most EU states, even the "believers" show religious conventions in public perhaps a dozen times a year.) Just observation as mentioned from the outside, and a little observations from my American coworkers that I happen to meet at least once a year.

Religion is getting politicized in the USA, by the conservatives. So it will not go away quietly as it has here.

(Although I admit that the church tax that the Nazis introduced, but somehow never got canceled, greedy Church, is an incredible great impulse in Austria/Germany for people to officially resign from the Church, it's usually driven by some scandal/dick move from their Church, and then the tax bill shows up in the mail, and people literally pilgrimage to the authorities to change their official religion to atheist.)

youdontknowme

George Sorry, but from looking in from the outside you don't. Even most American atheists show social religious conventions. (While in most EU states, even the "believers" show religious conventions in public perhaps a dozen times a year.) Just observation as mentioned from the outside, and a little observations from my American coworkers that I happen to meet at least once a year.

Religion is getting politicized in the USA, by the conservatives. So it will not go away quietly as it has here.

I think above all, religious matters are getting more divisive in America, while they seem to be getting more harmonious in western central Europe. Over here, even believers start becoming more open towards criticism of the church as an institution, which results in many former catholics and lutherans becoming more like non-denominational christians, whereas in the US, the people tending towards secularism are becoming more secular while the devoutly religious become more fundamentalist. I would say the age divide is on the side of secularists in the long run, but in the short term, the aforementioned culture war will result in that secularization being a rather unpleasant affair compared to what Europe went through in recent decades.

I would also argue that "mainline protestant" might mean something completely different in the USA compared to, say, Germany.

But again this is getting quite a bit political.

Andrew

George Religion is getting politicized in the USA, by the conservatives.

Conservatives seem to politicize religion everywhere, as it is a key reference point for them as a source of values.

George church tax that the Nazis introduced, but somehow never got canceled

When Polish guest workers traveled to Germany, at first they usually declared their affiliation with the Catholic Church, but when they found out that they would be charged church tax by doing so, they momentarily "lost faith." The German church took revenge by sending information to Poland that such a person had apostasized, so the Polish episcopate had to introduce a regulation that apostasies made abroad would not be recognized. 😉

youdontknowme I think above all, religious matters are getting more divisive in America, while they seem to be getting more harmonious in western central Europe.

In the U.S. - especially in Protestant circles - there is much greater religious fervor than in Europe. Churches in the US are also completely separate from the state, making them more resistant to secularization.

George

Andrew The German church took revenge by sending information to Poland that such a person had apostasized, so the Polish episcopate had to introduce a regulation that apostasies made abroad would not be recognized.

If only, for getting someone a Catholic funeral in Poland, you need a confirmation from their Austrian parish that they've been active members of the parish and attended regularly mess.

Guess we missed this regulation, or it only applies to the living who still can give.

Did I mention that my parents are very "good" Catholics. (Which did not keep them from allocating my girlfriends to one of the guest rooms, letting them know that the room is well sound proofed, where the condoms are, and that they know how to answer inquisitive questions from their parents. Very catholic 😀 )

With such "good" Catholics as parents, I've managed to raise me as a very pragmatic atheist 😀

youdontknowme

George they've been active members of the parish and attended regularly mess.

Amusing mistranslation here. Either that or mass is very disorganized in Austria.

Andrew

George Which did not keep them from allocating my girlfriends to one of the guest rooms, letting them know that the room is well sound proofed, where the condoms are, and that they know how to answer inquisitive questions from their parents. Very catholic

I would say exemplarily Catholic. Probably no other religion can so perfectly combine such contradictions between teaching and the practice of everyday life.

Avery

George I've managed to raise me as a very pragmatic atheist

Why not be a pragmatic Catholic. Boston College, a Jesuit institution, forbids the distribution on campus of condoms. So the Boston College Students for Sexual Health (BCSSH), an independent organization, sets up a table outside of McElroy Commons (the student center) on the corner of College Road, a city street, city property, and distributes condoms. The priests have done their duty and so has BCSSH. The only people who lose might be students who believe a condom is adequate protection (against pregnancy, not venerial disease).

WriterAlexis

George

I request a parent swap.

George

youdontknowme No, I don't use a translator, so it's just a typo 😅

And yes Austrian Church is quite a bit more relaxed than Polish Church. The only thing less relaxed is church tax collection.

Angelina

youdontknowme I reckon that as a liberal German, you probably spend more time without clothes than an American from a Mormon family.

that may be, of course, but i still maintain that it would probably have frustrated me even more if i had been able to see my private parts all the time.

Sasha

Angelina it would probably have frustrated me even more if i had been able to see my private parts all the time.

I have to agree with this, even wearing voluntarily, being able to see it like that would drive me nuts

Avery

youdontknowme I reckon that as a liberal German, you probably spend more time without clothes than an American from a Mormon family.

Probably correct, but I doubt the Mormon fathers watch their daughters shower.

Ines

Avery Probably correct, but I doubt the Mormon fathers watch their daughters shower.

Exactly, well said. Girls have right to intimacy, and even on a strict point of view, some minutes of intimacy do not collide with safety.
It is OK do not allow long showers without the belt, but to spy daughters is a madness in my value scale.

George

Andrew I haven't seen it like that 😁

Interesting point of view.

Owl

[Off-Topic]

Ines It is OK do not allow long showers without the belt, but to spy daughters is a madness in my value scale.

I highly value privacy and assume I understand the direction of your argument. I just would like to offer an addition and explanation that does not require perversion:

I remind that there are parts of the world where even fathers see their daughters naked from the moment they are born. Some societies expect them to clean, care, swaddle them, up to proclaiming it as desired and reasonable parenting. Besides: What to do, if other caregivers are not available, anyway?
And I presume it generally works without harm. It's probably close growing up together and normal biological course that prevents actual incestuous preferences and acts to happen. (Just except from the cases spectacular and terrible we learn about in modern media.)

George

WriterAlexis Coming from another walk of life.

And your positions are for Americans rather extreme.

Avery Why not be a pragmatic Catholic

Well to be more precise, I probably tend most to somewhere between atheist and agnostic. And what could be called "social Catholic" (potentially practicing some of the rituals but not for the religious but the social relevancy). Arguably that is a form of "pragmatic Catholic" too.

WriterAlexis

Huh. This is an interesting consensus forming. Guess I'm an outlier.

Avery

George potentially practicing some of the rituals

Personally, I drive over to the church and sit in my car and pray to each of the three statues. Also enter the church on sunny Sundays before people arrive and pray there.

George

WriterAlexis I suggest choosing wisely, and considering emigrating to Europe.

You know a nice place where religion is mostly, well religion. Not something that generally controls your life.

It's one of my personal jokes, I personally don't have a problem with Muslims. Not the boogeyman our right wing populist try to make them. But then all the ones I know personally, practice their faith about as intensely as I do with my Catholicism.

The most fundamentalist Muslim we've known personally was school friend of the kids. No she did not dress differently from the kids, 2nd generation Austrian anyway, but a small rebel, she insisted on trying to keep the diet (her idea, not her parents, which quietly rolled the eyes), so we made sure to have pork free stuff available when she visited. 🤷

That's the kind how religion should interfere with your life, IMHO, and not an inch further, @WriterAlexis

youdontknowme

George I personally don't Muslims.

Err... this sentence no verb?

But yeah, I am very much a proponent of the religion-as-a-penis rule. It is fine to have one, fine to not have one, fine to be proud of the one you have. But don't wave it in people's faces without their consent, and definitely don't try to shove it down a child's throat.

youdontknowme

George I personally don't have a problem with Muslims. Not the boogeyman our right wing populist try to make them

Same here. I feel that is another case where overgeneralization can turn something from statistics to malicious discrimination. When I see people marching under a banner of their faith, it matters less whether that banner is a cross or a crescent, and more whether they are carrying pitchforks or bread baskets.

Yes, statistically muslims are more likely to be fundamentalists with inhumane views. But the vast majority of muslims, whether practicing or not, are decent and kind people whose scariest part is what they vote for. Same with christians, and the only reason they are less likely to be bad guys is that society has actively tried to remove the bad apples from the bunch. Take a look overseas, that is where some of them ended up, and christian society in some corners of those places is not that much better than muslim society in some rather backwards countries.

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