Advice for potential new Keyholders

Joh

Kaja It depended on her view point.
If she sees her behavior as wrong and want to Change the CB is only a tool.

Jonas

Andrew But you started wearing the belt voluntarily, right? According to @Susan, Jane simply doesn't want to wear the belt and sees no benefit in wearing it.

Jane has apparently expressed both doubts about the belt and remorse for her actions, but hasn't made this decision yet.

It's actually the decision that's the crucial step for her. The decision to change is far more important than any chastity belt.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that Monica will try to force her daughter to do it. @Jenna and @Susan should discourage her from doing this.

I share your concern. The belt should not be punishment. It cannot be imposed. As always on the forum, forced usage should be reported to the authorities.

youdontknowme

Laura Let her try a belt without a secondary shield first

Alternatively, a belt that only needs to be worn out-of-home, like the compromise @Lukas and his sister arrived at with their parents.

As much as @Jonas may have a point that the most effective self improvement would derive from completely forsaking sexual pleasure, I do not think it will be an easy task to sell Jane on that. If Monica wants her piece of mind that those incidents do not reappear, the only way to get there without abuse is with Jane's consent, and "no more sleeping around" is a much easier sell than "no more orgasms and no more control over what is on your body". Her remorse may convince her to accept the former, but whether she could be convinced of the latter is a different question. Remember, strip the stigma of punishment.

The exact details of an arrangement both parties can be happy with will require bilateral negotiation. And mentoring between equals - Jenna talking with Monica and Susan with Jane - may significantly improve their chance of finding common ground.

Laura

youdontknowme Alternatively, a belt that only needs to be worn out-of-home

And it didn't work for me

Jonas

youdontknowme As much as @Jonas may have a point that the most effective self improvement would derive from completely forsaking sexual pleasure

I see what you're getting at but I don't think blocking masturbation is just the most effective way forward, I see other ways as being ineffective. It;s like being on a diet and being told "You're banned from going to any restaurant!!! ...But you can consume what you like at home."*

Cold turkey only way to regain control, in my view (and experience).

I do not think it will be an easy task to sell Jane on that.

I don't think it should be thought of as a sale. It's an offer: A serious solution to a serious problem.

I'm surprised that other people here haven't suggested therapy, sobriety groups, or other more standard approaches yet. Harmful behaviour isn't okay. We should not support people's will when their behaviour is risky, self-destructive, or harmful to others. We should condemn the behaviour and offer help to the person.

📱 orders take-out

Laura

Jonas I don't think it should be thought of as a sale

The whole theme leaves such an impression, although it's definitely just a wrong wording by @youdontknowme

youdontknowme

Jonas I don't think it should be thought of as a sale. It's an offer: A serious solution to a serious problem.

It is an attempt to come to a consensual agreement with a reluctant party. Negotiations and concessions are to be expected.

Jonas I'm surprised that other people here haven't suggested therapy, sobriety groups, or other more standard approaches yet.

The problem at hand is that Monica and Jane disagree about using a chastity belt. More conventional solutions to the problem are orthogonal to that, and I would expect them to pursue those regardless of whether a belt is worn or not.

Harmful behaviour isn't okay. We should not support people's will when their behaviour is risky, self-destructive, or harmful to others. We should condemn the behaviour and offer help to the person.

Unlike you, I do not consider masturbation inherently harmful. It is not the same as sleeping around with with relative strangers, and I believe in the possibility to separate physical relief from ever-changing partners.

Angelina

Laura But it's less stressful to start with. Prevent sex only, and self-pleasure later on

if masturbation must be prevented at all. i think it would be easier for jane if the belt (if she decides to use it) is only used to prevent uncontrolled sex, i don't see it being a problem if jane masturbates

Jonas I'm surprised that other people here haven't suggested therapy

I don't know the girl and I'm not sure if it's an addiction or just bad behavior. if it's really an addiction, she should of course go to therapy, then the belt won't help

I still think the following questions are important

does Jane see that she has a problem?
would wearing a chastity belt help with the problem?
would jane do it voluntarily if she realized it would help her?

It depends on Jane's point of view and of course her mother shouldn't force her. I think Jane is at a point like @Sasha was a few years ago, asking what she can and wants to do now

Jonas

youdontknowme Unlike you, I do not consider masturbation inherently harmful. It is not the same as sleeping around with with relative strangers,

Specifically; I think the harmful behaviour is self-gratification beyond need. Like @Jenna I don't see the need for masturbation. Instead I see a lot of potential harms arising from it, sexual excess being just one example.

Kaja

Jonas But do you have any proofs for this words?

Sexuologist, psychologist and others specialist say that it is natural, normal, unproblematic even healthy.

MissBlossom

Jonas Specifically; I think the harmful behaviour is self-gratification beyond need.

What if the harmful behavior is the excessive seeking of male approval and attention?

Ines

Kaja

But they see it since their optic, it is similar to some drugs in medicine. Some specialist think that X medicine is wonderful because it solves X diseases (obviously the diseases that they cover), but other doctors of other specialities hate that drug because it complicates pathologies that they cover.
Maybe an orgasm could be nice for my cardiac rhythm, but for me it would have disgusting moral consequences since it is the path to degradation - according my opinion-.

Sabina

Ines Maybe an orgasm could be nice for my cardiac rhythm, but for me it would have disgusting moral consequences since it is the path to degradation

I think we should let each specialist evaluate masturbation/orgasm on his own: the doctor in the medical aspect, and the ethicist or theologian in the moral aspect.

Jonas

MissBlossom What if the harmful behavior is the excessive seeking of male approval and attention?

Then I guess the problem would lie in the unmoderated gratification of this desire.

In all cases the root problem, as far as I can see it, is the feedback loop created when you give yourself pleasure. This is okay up to the point of need, but beyond this, it risks becoming self-sustaining, consuming and unhealthy.

In the example you give, it'd be healthier for the individual to examine whether they really needed male approval so much and if not, to starve their desire for it back down. Seeking "relief" by pursuing the desire only increases it.

Ines

Sabina

Yes, but implications are global ones! Maybe cardiologist are happy because X medicine avoid Thrombi, but the neurosurgeons are holding their hands over their heads because this drug X facilitates intracranial hemorrhages.
But of course, that grandpa is dying in the neurosurgery room, not in the cardiology room, so the cardiologists will still be enthusiastic about drug X.

So it is not a medical issue, but I mean that masturbation is an issue that has plenty of faces, and we Have to see it with a global perspective.

MissBlossom

Jonas In the example you give, it'd be healthier for the individual to examine whether they really needed male approval so much and if not, to starve their desire for it back down. Seeking "relief" by pursuing the desire only increases it.

Maybe.

Or maybe she just needs someone to teach her that you don't catch a fish by dumping all your bait in the water.

Sabina

Ines You are 100% right about the drugs. However, as for masturbation, I would prefer that the doctor be guided in his assessment only by medical / biological aspects, and not by moral assessment ...

Joh

Ines I disagree. Each Person has it individual Background and it should examinat individuell Not global.

Ines

Sabina

Not only moral, it has very practical implications, it is the door for a lot of problems.

Sabina

Ines for a lot of problems

Can you point out which ones?

Jonas

Angelina I think it would be easier for jane if the belt (if she decides to use it) is only used to prevent uncontrolled sex, i don't see it being a problem if jane masturbates

I think it would be easier on her ....because she'd not be dealing with the problem!

The real work is done when we are resisting our desires and urges and learning how to deal with the inevitable frustration. But this never happens when we're allowed to continue masturbating. We remain slaves to our own sex drives.

I still think the following questions are important

does Jane see that she has a problem?
would wearing a chastity belt help with the problem?
would jane do it voluntarily if she realized it would help her?

It depends on Jane's point of view and of course her mother shouldn't force her.

Agree, these questions are key, and force should be out of the question.

Joh

Jonas We remain slaves to our own sex drives.

Only If you are not able to enjoy it at the right time and be Not distracted the other time.
Our Sex Drive is Part of our self and you have to learn to live with it. Some have a low other a high one. And so is no solution which fits all.

Your solution solves one Problem but creat another Problem. Frustration which is hard to handle. Many propose to distract yourself e.g. Work or learning. But If you are able to distract yourself you are also able to do so If you can Not pleasure yourself at the wrong time.
Why can't time without belt not be a bonus you earn for good results?

Kaja

Jonas You are slave of yourweakness. Because you have to substitute your mind and self force by metal underwear...

Ines

Sabina

Yes, masturbation is a ladder towards even worse things, and further a waste of time and efforts.

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