Chastity contract

pestulens

Spork I also have never heard of a law spacificaly against stabbing someone with a fork in a bar fight. General laws agenst assault are written broadly enough that they don't need to be that specific. I have been at events that have had policies about bringing working siege weapons, which in and of itself tells me that must have come up before.

If a case like that had come to the attention of the authorities of say Dearborn Michigan in 1918, the local prosecutor world have had to search the applicable laws to see what might fit the specific facts of that particular case. It would ultimately be up to a judge and/or jury to decide. Give the outlandish and sensational nature of such a case, I would expect that the judge/jury wouldn't be inclined to be sympathetic, but I would also expect the prosecutor would rather plead the case out rather considering the lack of president.

Angelina

Spork What would the courts enforce?

it would depend on whether it was medically ethically correct. the comparison to a private chastity belt contract, however, is very far-fetched in my opinion

Spork That's kind of my point. A lot of the posts in this thread are conflating morality and legality, and assuming that because something is immoral according to their viewpoint, it must be clearly and definitively illegal.

do we agree that it is illegal to put someone in a chastity belt against their will? If so, then the contract would automatically be illegal from the point at which a court has to deal with the review of the contract at all, because at that point the person is definitely wearing the belt against his/her will

youdontknowme Might be the high role that freedom of speech plays in your version of human and civil rights that makes it difficult to legislate (and enforce laws) against verbal threats,

which is also reasonable, an opinion is not a crime

Spork in that it is legal to escape prison there.

of course it's legal, it's just almost impossible to do it without committing other crimes 😂

Spork

Angelina do we agree that it is illegal to put someone in a chastity belt against their will?

In the specific case of an adult doing it to a child, I think that one is going to heavily depend upon jurisdiction. In many parts of the world, including liberal democracies, it is (for example) perfectly legal for adults to restrain children, beat them moderately hard, and even to inflict permanent genital mutilation upon their sons without consent. In some cultures, the right of parents to raise their children the way they see fit is considered more important than the rights of the children: indeed, the state prohibiting certain practices is sometimes seen as religious or ethnic cleansing.

Angelina of course it's legal, it's just almost impossible to do it without committing other crimes 😂

No, Germany is odd there. In most places the act of escaping is itself illegal. It's a weird quirk of the way the German constitution views bodily autonomy that escaping can't be made illegal on its own.

Angelina

Spork I think that one is going to heavily depend upon jurisdiction.

i would say at least in most western democracies it's illegal. that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. in my case my father even knew it was illegal, he just didn't care. but i think you haven't understood my argument yet. we're talking about a voluntary contract, for voluntary wear. as soon as a court has to review it, it's no longer voluntary wear

Spork It's a weird quirk of the way the German constitution views bodily autonomy that escaping can't be made illegal on its own.

what is interesting in this context is that it is illegal if you help someone escape from prison 😉

George

Spork
In Europe it would almost certainly violate the European Human Rights Convention.

Now in the USA, it might be more complicated, as in the good old US Human rights have no legal status. OTOH the US has still a ton of funky laws about sex on the books, and chastity belts are primary seen by the mainstream as sex toys. Not sure if you realize that the Mann Act is till today enforced. And while it's not as nebulous as it was in its definition, if any state you touch would define your "chastity contract" illegal, your vacation just turned very problematic.

youdontknowme

Angelina but i think you haven't understood my argument yet. we're talking about a voluntary contract, for voluntary wear. as soon as a court has to review it, it's no longer voluntary wear

I think the idea is that a contract, as a binding agreement, could supersede the ability to retract consent. Which may be true in financial transactions, but is definitely not true in agreements where you choose not to exercise your unalienable homan rights.

Angelina

youdontknowme

already understood that, i just wonder if it makes a difference if the contract says ‘that the contract is a voluntary wearing of the belt’ or ‘even if consent is no longer given’

George

youdontknowme
Ah, but the point is not all contracts must be valid legally or enforced by a court, e.g. if there are other considerations. E.g. Why did @Angelina voluntary agree to the contract? A contract implies always there is a two-sided exchange of considerations, so what did she get out of it?

Angelina

George so what did she get out of it?

in my case, of course, wearing the belt was not really voluntary, but the contract helped me anyway. i had a paper that clearly stated what was expected of me, what my father was supposed to do and what the penalties were for breaking the rules. at least it brought a certain clarity and helped to avoid arbitrariness

Jenna

Angelina I have never really heard any details of the contract that you used to have with your father. Would you be willing to share those now that the agreement is over? What types of punishments were used if rules were broken. As I outlined above I believe successful outcomes for wearing a belt should have detailed agreements so expectations are met on both sides. The girls and I modify our agreements regularly when conditions change.

Angelina

Jenna

well, punishments were breaks from the bands and the bra (which I negotiated) being abolished or more devices, more restrictive version of the thigh bands, connecting chains from bra to belt etc.
then the contracts stated what I have to wear, why I have to wear it, hygiene times etc.
what else would you like to know?

Jenna

Angelina That is good, thank you Angelina. Certainly our situation is different. My relationship with the girls is much more collaborative, I try to do things to make the whole process of wearing a belt easier. The goal is belt wearing, ideally for as much time as possible, to avoid temptations. I would never use chastity bras or any kind of punitive measures on the girls. Thigh bands are only used with permission and consent and only when urges becoming overwhelming and problematic. I am sorry you had to go through that.

rob4life

Angelina

Sorry to read that.
I hope you kept those contracts
They might prove useful in case you want to claim justice

Hope it helps

Angelina

Jenna

that's a good thing. you use similar arguments as my father regarding the use of the belts, but at least you manage to reach a certain consensus and don't overreact. i think the forum has helped you, maybe my father would have felt the same way if he had found the forum instead of me

rob4life

i kept the contracts, but i have no interest in harming my father, besides, he knew what he was doing, he just didn't care because he thought he knew better what was right and wrong

Jenna

Angelina that's a good thing. you use similar arguments as my father regarding the use of the belts, but at least you manage to reach a certain consensus and don't overreact. i think the forum has helped you, maybe my father would have felt the same way if he had found the forum instead of me

As I have said many times Angelina, the forum has been an enormous benefit to all of us. I was going down the dark path with using these these belts, and I know it could have had disastrous consequences. Now we are on the same page and that would not have happened without regular engagement from thoughtful people here.

Angelina

Jenna

that's why i'm often a bit more lenient with you. i understand users who criticise your behaviour, but at least you try to find a workable solution for all sides and i think your story can be seen as a success in this forum

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