A Fundamental question

a_father

Renita You can quit whenever you want. Who should stop you? Your mother? Really?
You are afraid falling back to old behaviours, right?

Renita

a_father You are afraid falling back to old behaviours, right?

One of few reasons.

HHelen

Theo but because their parents/someone else forces them to.

You just can't force anyone, girl wear belts with their consent.

Sara2001

HHelen You just can't force anyone, girl wear belts with their consent.

Absolutely. I think if you life in a developed country, every wearer can easily get out of the belt if she/he decides to do so. This doesn't mean that parents can't convince their minor kids what I don't support. But I don't think it's possible to brainwash someone enough to accept this without thinking about legal aspects and ways to get out. I think at the end every real "forced" wearer here is convinced in one or the other way. Family values play an important role I think.

Angelina

Theo Thats clearly some sort of abuse?

I don't see it that way, but if I bring it up, many people will disagree with me, so I'd rather not wake any sleeping bears. as long as many here do not recognise the difference between involuntary and forced, this discussion is pointless.

a_father

Renita At some point you have to face your demons ...

Vanessa

Ines No, never, forum does not endorse or justify forced chastity, do not get confused with it.

I confirm.

Renita

What would be the consequences if you decide to quit?

Renita

Not related to your mother wanting you still wear it,so.

LoonyMel there are also social or economic blackmail.

Right.

I can stop wearing it when I want,but I would have to leave,and it would break the relationship with my parents.

LoonyMel

Not so easy to avoid it in a developed country.
Violent physical abuse is one thing, but there are also social or economic blackmail.
There are people who are clearly not able to support themselves if thrown out of the house, there are minors, there are people who cannot accept to cut ties with families...
Not so easy to escape from coercition...

Sin

Vanessa I can stop wearing it when I want,but I would have to leave,and it would break the relationship with my parents.

Would it really though? A parent's love is unconditional. It may not seem that way to a child, but you are the product of a lifetime of hard work and dedication. Sure, they might be disappointed... But severing ties because you won't wear their favourite underwear? Seriously?

My bet is they would miss you terribly the moment you disappeared from their lives. It's just a perception of power that keeps you there. Flip that on it's head and they would start questioning their parenting methods pretty damn quickly.

And if they really would block you despite you being a well adjusted, capable adult... well then you should probably start asking yourself if it's worth hanging around for that kind of relationship.

Renita

Vanessa What would be the consequences if you decide to quit?

I would be shamed at least. I was trying to mention it, but was asked what for.

Vanessa Not related to your mother wanting you still wear it,so.

No, it's still my choice.

Vanessa

Sin

Not sure it would last until my marriage,but not worth risking it.

And,at the start,it would be the case;sure.

Angelina

Sin Flip that on it's head and they would start questioning their parenting methods pretty damn quickly.

whereby we would then be no better than our parents. it is true that what our parents do is a form of blackmail, but the other way round we would also blackmail our parents. if it went according to the method, there would no longer be any rules and everyone would do what he/she wants. then families would be destroyed.

LoonyMel

Money is still something that bind us.
If it was not so consuming to live alone probably parents would feel less entitled.
Or, at least, they would have a lot less leverage.

When you throw off the affection and become a parent just put of dependence it is hard to resist when it comes to an end.

Vanessa

LoonyMel Or, at least, they would have a lot less leverage.

Yes,even if it is not the main one,in my case.

Breaking the relationship with my parents would be the worst part.

Renita I was trying to mention it, but was asked what for.

Difficult to answer,if you wear since a long time and so can't tell it is for comfort....

Sin It might break him but it sounds like he needs it.

But it can hurt her too.

Renita

Test what?

LoonyMel Here in Italy we have no uniforms

Same in France.

HHelen

Renita I was trying to mention it, but was asked what for.

I would ask the same question. What for?

Sin

Angelina it is true that what our parents do is a form of blackmail, but the other way round we would also blackmail our parents.

No because there is no blackmail in the other direction. "I love you but I'm not a child and I'm not doing this anymore, it's damaging. I'm moving into a share house with my friends."

If he cuts off ties with you for that he's going to die a very lonely old man. You are his world. You said yourself he's got no-one else. That's a lot to give up! It might break him but it sounds like he needs it.

Renita

HHelen What for?

To test.

LoonyMel

Sin No because there is no blackmail in the other direction. "I love you but I'm not a child and I'm not doing this anymore, it's damaging. I'm moving into a share house with my friends."

This is 100% my stance. Sons and daughters are meant to develop and going away. It is natural, not something done to hurt.
That is what should happen.
Expecially when some environment becomes toxic on the long run. Sadly sometimes this is difficult.

Angelina

Sin No because there is no blackmail in the other direction. "I love you but I'm not a child and I'm not doing this anymore, it's damaging. I'm moving into a share house with my friends."

i understand what you mean, but i don't know if it's bad for me. my dad thinks it's good for me and i think it's not good for me, but neither of us has any proof that it's right for me to wear a belt or not.

besides, i don't think that's the way families should talk to each other. it's more like talking to a boss who almost runs the company into the ground for the third time.

Avery after a while you believe this all pervasive message. It's hard to rebel.

i don't believe my father's claims, but i can't prove the opposite either

Avery

The message the parents are sending is so pervasive, though. You go to (an American) high school and are told you can't bare your shoulders least it inflame passions in the boys. You go to church and are told it's God's plan that you be chaste. So you go home and hear the same thing and after a while you believe this all pervasive message. It's hard to rebel.

Sin

Avery I have never been to the USA but my perception is that it has really turned to fundamentalist Christianity in the last 20 years or so. This never seemed to be the case in the 90s... you never really saw it on tv or heard about it in music, but now it's everywhere. I'm sure people went to church, but now it seems to be a really huge, ingrained part of society. It influences your laws despite there supposedly being a seperation between church and state.

I might be wrong but my perception is that the USA is now at least as fundamentalist / religious as much of the middle east. Certainly a lot more than Australia or much of Western Europe.

All the more reason to tread your own path I would say! ;-)

Avery

Sin I'm not sure we've caught up to the middle east, maybe in some parts of the South, the so-called bible belt. I do know in my public high school in the Northeast, serving three adjacent towns there was a dress code. Females were forbidden bare shoulders, bare middies (even an inch), jeans with holes in them and skirts above the knees. We all kept hoodies in our lockers which avoided one being sent home for above the waist violations. The rational often given was not that such wear was indecent but that it would distract the boys and interfere with the learning experience. Evidently college boys concentrate better because at my uni we can wear anything that won't get you arrested on the street.

HHelen

Renita To test.

Failed.

Avery

Angelina

Angelina i don't believe my father's claims, but i can't prove the opposite either

I sometimes wonder how much effect the parents' views have on their eventual grandchildren.

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