My thought was to simply cover the cost of a belt if a woman desires one. I am thinking that there are a lot of women that would like to have a belt even if just for nighs out with friends at the local pub. This might be popular thinking among college women. A very high risk time in a woman's life.
Chastity belt law
bdsamm I am thinking that there are a lot of women that would like to have a belt even if just for nighs out with friends at the local pub.
They could tie it into the message about Consent. A new service - the tripple S - Sober Sexual Self. A service to let you make decisions about sexual activity and go out for a night free from worry.
Rina I think differently, I think Russia might be first, since majority of Russians are conservative Orthodox and in Russia whatever Putin says, it goes. If Putin knows of existence of chastity belt…
well, maybe even arab countries, but i started from western democracies. you could be right, of course, but it's only theory anyway.
bdsamm My thought was to simply cover the cost of a belt if a woman desires one. I am thinking that there are a lot of women that would like to have a belt even if just for nighs out with friends at the local pub
maybe you can do it like with social benefits, the woman gets it financed if she presents good arguments for it and makes an application.
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General remark: Though I believe belts could play a useful and effective role in therapy, legal system incl. the penitentiary system - particularly when put in relation to actually existing offenses and sentences(!) - I wouldn't just start in prisons. Cause if it was introduced there, I'm afraid it would just reinforce that misconception of equating the whole topic with medieval, "torture", pain, punishment (maybe bondage, at best), again.
Doesn't mean it's wrong what you (e.g. Megan , Ines ) wrote. I'm rather with you regarding it's usefulness. Just worrying that all the good and positive aspects might go to rack and ruin, if the general public's first introduction to chastity devices would be something like "ah that's what criminals wear" ...
Angelina I've thought about it again and try to formulate something simple.
Husbands have the right to demand that the wife wears a chastity belt, the wife has to accept this if the husband has informed her before the marriage. he can sue later in court if the wife does not fulfill her marital obligations or is unfaithful.
Parents can apply to the court for the daughter to wear a chastity belt, but they have to justify it well and have it approved by a judge, and there is also supervision by an official authority that checks that the parents are not abusing the power
what do you think of it and do you have any ideas how to make it more concrete?
Would have spared valuable people in my life a big portion of trouble. Generally like your idea. The parenting part is probably in line with principles of existing handling concerning legal guardianship and care I learned to know in Germany. Just adding another instrument. Now, I know it's a controversial topic and I am quite torn between different positions here.
So for now, let me just focus on one aspect and possible shortcoming in "your" version of the law: I'd say, to make a judge rule in favor of that chastity with full conviction, some bad things must already have happened. Unfortunately and from my experience, these could easily mean very serious, sometimes irreversible things
bdsamm
Covering costs of belts would be quite powerful and substantial. One the one hand, It's a significant amount of money. On the other hand, I'd suggest that all direct and indirect costs saved by such a measure (in medical support, incl. therapy, counceling, in criminal prosecution, courts, etc etc), not to speak of all the suffering of humans prevented, incl. the terrible issue of pregnancies that never should have been etc, should be put in comparison. Could be a research project to investigate all the impacts of such measures.
Angelina I've thought about it again and try to formulate something simple.
Husbands have the right to demand that the wife wears a chastity belt, the wife has to accept this if the husband has informed her before the marriage. he can sue later in court if the wife does not fulfill her marital obligations or is unfaithful.
Parents can apply to the court for the daughter to wear a chastity belt, but they have to justify it well and have it approved by a judge, and there is also supervision by an official authority that checks that the parents are not abusing the power
what do you think of it and do you have any ideas how to make it more concrete?
Thinking out loud, because this makes me genuinely curious: a law like this assumes the gender is a clear and specific thing. Women are treated one way in this law, men are treated another. What is the role of trans people here? Does the law consider me to still be male for this purpose? Would I automatically be given belting rights over Goody? Or would I have any rights at all? If the law treats me as female at the point of transition, does my chastity become the property of someone else? Would I go, overnight, from having control of myself to my mother or some relative having authority to enforce my belting? (Haha, there’s a paradoxical image: a potential key holder going to court to enforce a man being belted BECAUSE he wants to transition!) And would that mean that with Goody’s family being my only real living family, my keys would pass to them and I have no real choice in the matter?
Genuinely fascinating thoughts. I’m finding the exercise surprisingly enjoyable.
Angelina Husbands have the right to demand that the wife wears a chastity belt, the wife has to accept this if the husband has informed her before the marriage. he can sue later in court if the wife does not fulfill her marital obligations or is unfaithful.
Parents can apply to the court for the daughter to wear a chastity belt, but they have to justify it well and have it approved by a judge, and there is also supervision by an official authority that checks that the parents are not abusing the power
what do you think of it and do you have any ideas how to make it more concrete?
There’s a thing in the USA that this reminds me of, which never really went anywhere: “covenant marriage,” which is like super-sized marriage. The contract from the start says you give up the right to no-fault divorce, and divorce is much harder. It was a reaction to the perception that American divorce was too easy to get, and created a special form of religious-type marriage you could opt into.
The scenario presupposes a basic thing; that women’s access to themselves is secondary, and that the right to belt women supersedes their personal autonomy. I honestly feel like this would be a deal-breaker for many nations, but not all of them, and I can name a dozen US states that would adopt your plan right now.
Every time I think about mass chastity, I think about what I call the “Doc B Test.” Named for my friend Dr. Billingsley (not her real name), who is the least likely person to wear chastity that I’ve ever met. She enjoys sex a lot, primarily with women, and has no problem whatsoever with masturbating when she pleases. (She would have great fun with Rafael’s statement that masturbation is one of the most socially objectionable things a respectable woman can do.) She is relatively young, single, has no intention of ever getting married, and has moderately conservative parents.
On paper, she seems like an ideal candidate to wear the belt in this hypothetical world. Sexually libertine, unlikely to settle down, with parents who disapprove of all this and could petition to get her locked. But she’s not just her gender or her sex life. She’s a brilliant neuroscientist whose work has been cited in papers in multiple languages. She’s a highly regarded college professor on tenure track, whose students love her. It sounds almost insane to think of locking up someone like her because her parents disapprove of her sex life. But I’d bet in a government-sponsored chastity scenario, it would be authorized to lock her up against her will. And I don’t like the idea of that at all.
(As a side note: for at least some people who would support such a law, keeping Dr. B under control would be the POINT. In their minds, her PhD studies took a spot that a man deserved, and her dedication to her work is denying some man a good housewife. I’m not saying anyone here feels this way, but in America, MANY would.)
This almost wants me to create a new kind of angle to examine these topics, “Chastity Law Case Studies.” “Sally W. is an unwed college grad student who has has two abortions and no intention of giving up sex. Her parents have petitioned to have her belted until marriage. She objects. What does the Unwed Chastity jury decide?”
Feels like too much work, but maybe later!
Well, darn it, now I have to do it. Captain @Laura! Request permission to create just-fun-fun “Chastity Belt Judge and Jury” thread!
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Saintprudence What is the role of trans people here? Does the law consider me to still be male for this purpose?
I think seeing religious fanatics in US... I guess they'll just ignore trans people's existence. Like past dark days when trans people were treated as "deviants". I doubt whether they would recognize people like us in accordance to our gender identity.
And in such draconian situation like that I feel like "marriage for convenience" would soar up at the point everyone get married right after they hit 18 with thier friends, or anyone willing to get paid for "helping girl to be free of chastity belt", probably a marriage brokerage service in a style of "mail-order bride" but gender reversal version I guess.
Saintprudence It sounds almost insane to think of locking up someone like her because her parents disapprove of her sex life.
If lucky some may even get refugee status over such kind of practices. Like many countries including one right north of US may view it as oppression. For example prosecution for being gay in mandatory military service in one's home country was accepted as a ground for refugee status. A popular destination for Vietnam War draft dodgers was also Canada.
Saintprudence Request permission to create just-fun-fun “Chastity Belt Judge and Jury” thread!
Why do you need my permission?
Laura because I try to take this place seriously and keep made-up weirdness to a minimum. So I’m inclined to ask I’m advance before starting a thread of made-up weirdness!
Rina I doubt whether they would recognize people like us in accordance to our gender identity.
Indeed, in this scenario they’d almost certainly use birth-certificate rules, which would lead to transmen with beards and burly bodies being brought to court to be belted as “women.”
Rina And in such draconian situation like that I feel like "marriage for convenience" would soar up at the point everyone get married right after they hit 18 with thier friends, or anyone willing to get paid for "helping girl to be free of chastity belt"
The scary thing there is that any woman who marries for convenience and belt freedom must be VERY sure that the man she marries can be trusted, since great power over her is being placed in his hands.
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believe that these types of issues should remain private.
The prison sentences because at least here the criminals who have done terrible things live too well and I think they do not deserve society to be lax with them, and maybe, and for other reasons, somewhere like university campuses they can be exceptions to the scope private.
Ines University campuses are weird. They’re so liberal that I can’t imagine the chastity thing taking hold there. And yet they’re so self-governing that they’re one of the few places that government-enforced chastity could plausibly work.
Angelina the wife has to accept this if the husband has informed her before the marriage. he can sue later in court if the wife does not fulfill her marital obligations or is unfaithful
This part fascinated me. What do you mean by suing in court? And what would happen if she “did not fulfill her marital obligations”? Is this grounds for divorce, or are you proposing it is grounds for belting?
Saintprudence Honestly, with how feminist post-secondary schools tend to be (unless it is a catholic institute or something), I could only imagine chastity belts being offered to women on a voluntary basis, if at all. Maybe male chastity has a better chance, as an admission requirement for certain courses of study or as a mandatory part of some class.
Maybe in some places it might also be required that women with penises put the offending item out of commission before being granted access to safe spaces, but outside of Britain, where TERF ideology has way too much traction, I can only see that happening in response to an incident
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Something weird is that some countries people generally view as conservative countries, like Japan, looks more liberal than some part of America. I don’t see many Asian people here, being belted by their parents while many think Asian parents are more strict than Western counterparts and I saw many American here. Maybe the thing called chastity belt is not really commonly known even as a myth in Asian countries (I never heard of any myths about chastity belt back in my home country at all) or maybe because many Asian countries aren’t dominated by extreme christians as America does (For example Japan only have like 2-4 percent Christians, not vocal as American either. Majority are buddhists / or into Shinto, which don’t really touch average people’s personal life as much as christianity does.)
I attended an institute that belonged to the Catholic Church but it wasn't radical at all, and in fact I already told you here that the teachers turned a blind eye to the "arrangements" that the girls made with the length of the skirt if we were not too exaggerated.
A middle-aged teacher who had been a student there told us that in her time, in the 1980s, they did it too. I remember this so you can see that I was not in a convent.
When I went to college I was shocked by the behavior of some girls. I do not live in a cave away from the world, but there were behaviors that were degrading.
With chastity belts for girls on campus that would not happen.
What actually probably would work is an opt-in situation. Kind of like how homeowners associations in the USA have great power to control individual homes, because everyone signed a contract that said they accepted these rules. A planned community where everyone coming into the community knows and accepts the rules could be workable.
Of course, that would require getting hundreds of belt-wearers and keyholders to live in the same place, and that’s probably the least realistic part of all!