Why do you think masturbation is wrong?

Angelina

Avery It is not her choice.

So at least @Sara2001 has voluntarily decided to do so.

I find it interesting to talk about something. we all always say that women shouldn't be the property of their husbands and men shouldn't be the property of their wives either. However, if both are the case at the same time, I believe that a perfect marriage of equal rights is created.
i experience it too often that people in marriages behave absolutely selfishly and think that there is a mistake that many justify with independence and freedom, i don't have to be that in a marriage, i can be the property of my partner and that just as long as as long as my partner is also my property

youdontknowme

Angelina If both are property, than neither is property. The key to an owner-property relationship is in its asymmetry, where the owner is free to exploit the relationship at their pleasure, whereas the property has no choice but to go along with the owner's will. A relationship where both "belong to each other" is not one where anyone is property.

Sara2001

Angelina So at least @Sara2001 has voluntarily decided to do so.

Exactly. It is my free decision to live this lifestyle.

Angelina I find it interesting to talk about something. we all always say that women shouldn't be the property of their husbands and men shouldn't be the property of their wives either. However, if both are the case at the same time, I believe that a perfect marriage of equal rights is created.

I am not his property. I voluntary submit to him. We different roles and rules in our marriage but not different value.

I don't think equal rights are necessary for a happy and fulfilling marriage as long as everything is consensual.

Angelina

youdontknowme If both are property, than neither is property.

you can see it that way, I see it differently. I would be willing to follow my girlfriend's wishes unconditionally and she would be willing to follow mine. Of course that's not everyday life, we discuss most of it, but we know that it can be like that. calling yourself someone's property doesn't necessarily mean that there has to be an asymmetry, it just means that your partner is extremely important to you, in case of doubt even more important than yourself

Mike_Orca

Basically, I think masturbation is completely normal and useful the sexual development of adolescents. Even in a relationship or marriage it should be mostly unproblematic, as long as the sexuality of the partnership is more important and is not affected.

Nevertheless, after twelve years of marriage, I gave it up, first as an experiment and permanently for the last 17 years. The basis is a kind of vow, not in the religious sense, but just as binding.

And why? The kinky part of my personality developed while my wife had no corresponding fantasies. After a while I recognized that the combination of kinky fantasies and masturbation might get more important compared to than intimate moments with my wife. I felt something had to change, we talked a lot and came to a solution: I gave up masturbation - for the first years without a CB - while my wife tried to understand and accept what I was missing. I have the impression that my wife is as happy with the result as I am. It's not perfect, sometimes the chastity belt is really a frustrating hindrance, but it's the best compromise we could find.

Angelina

Sara2001 I am not his property. I voluntary submit to him. We different roles and rules in our marriage but not different value.

I understand that, I wasn't really talking about you either, but about how mutual dominance and subservience could balance each other out 🙂

a_father

As I said before, there are two crucial reasons, please read the second one again, it answers your question. my father wants me to get married to show that i'm mature enough to be able to make decisions about my sexuality, he sees that as a given when i make an equally mature decision to marry someone

toad

Sara2001

Sara2001 I've always enjoyed Sara's posts. She has chosen a man and a lifestyle she is comfortable with. By her own admission she is happy with both. That my friends is better than most people do!

a_father

Angelina But giving you a release or a little pleasure with your girlfriend from time to time would not be in conflict with his goals.
I think, he has to explain. When you are together with your girlfriend you have a break from your studies and you other task. So no reason to have no pleasure. What he says means you have to work and study always. That's not the case.
I'd like to know, what he has to say to these arguments.

a_father

Angelina But "he wants..." What do you want? It's up to you now, not to him.
He forces you to marry, to be free. What, if you regret later? You marry at the first possible time and your father is the reason.
Would you wait with marriage, if you were free? (That's a rhetorical question)
I know from my own life, that the biggest changes in my outlook on life took place between the age of 18 and perhapse 26 (and your girlfriend is even younger than you) when Iooking back at the age of 51.
With 18 I was convinced I knew what life is....
You think you are mature and an adult, but you are not. But you have to marry, to be able to bring your partnership with your girfriend to the next level.
If it fails, it's your father's fault, not yours, but you have to suffer. I'll never understand that kind of parents. He wants to protect you, but this is the opposite.
I keep my fingers crossed that your life succeeds, but the start conditions are far from optimal and you and your father could easily make conditions better

Angelina

a_father

just to be clear, the belt plays a role in the wedding, of course, but not the main role. i love my girlfriend and have asked her several times if she is ready to marry me and have thought about it myself more than once. i would not put pressure on myself or my girlfriend to get married if we did not feel ready.

George

Andrew Have you considered that religion comes in different forms?

E.g. deep believers, but also "social practitioners that go a couple of times to the Church for old traditions".

(The fact that our "believers" are mostly the second kind, might be a reason why we need to import Polish priests 😉 )

Any way, that way you can have the funny situation that you have a society that might fill out on a survey "not very religious", but at the same time show preferences for traditions that would make a Jesuit wince about the medieval mindset. (Abusing the cheap preconceptions here)

BTW, I just described my in-laws, and according to my wife they are one of the most progressive ones in their village. (After the decades, I sadly have to agree, about my in-laws and about them being progressives in that hellhole,)

More general, a normative authority might influence a population even after it stopped being a normative authority, think for example about the end of Communism in Poland, it took also a generation (or be honest, more than one), before certain mindsets were gone (e.g. the need to "organize" stuff) from the general population.

Andrew

George Have you considered that religion comes in different forms?

I thought about that too. Conservatism does not always go hand in hand with religion. It would seem that the rejection of religion in individual cases will also result in the rejection of certain beliefs that are a direct consequence of religious norms. As you can see (especially on this forum), however, this is not the case, and norms based on religion may in practice function in isolation from it (although then they lose their logic and persist, as it were, by the force of inertia). It also leads to paradoxical situations. I have always been convinced that Poland is a very conservative country, but I can see that in some secular circles in the West the attachment to traditional principles is much greater than in Poland, even among religious people.

George we need to import Polish priests 😉

Where are you from?

George the need to "organize" stuff

You must have had a lot of contacts with Poles if you know this term...... 😅

George

Andrew Where are you from?

Austria, and the reality of the Austrian catholic church has been for the last decades that it has not been producing enough priests. While Poland for a time at least had an overproduction, so Austrian xenophobes had to live with priests with a strong accent 😆

The capacity of not recognizing oneself in an image is almost limitless in humans 😅

Andrew You must have had a lot of contacts with Poles if you know this term...... 😅

Well, I'm not the youngest. I spent a decade as a consultant jumping around Europe. One collects all kind of curious tidbits with my CV.

George

Andrew

Andrew You must have had a lot of contacts with Poles if you know this term...... 😅

If you want another example, where societal policy and societal norms have divorced: PR China's one child policy: the party has decreed 2016 that "one child per family" is not okay anymore, but 2 generations have not known anything else but "dad-mum-kid" families, so despite that 2021 even 3 kid families were legalized, all kinds of subsidies for young families were introduced, the "societal norm" is still the 1 child family, and realistically will remain for the next decades so.

No matter what the "law of the country" says.

Ines

Please... read the title of the topic...

George

Ines oops sorry 😉 Mental masturbation is also wrong?

Angelina

George

interesting how a law can become a social norm even if the law no longer exists. 😆

Mr-TM

George "societal norm" is still the 1 child family

Therefore, the Chinese population has shrunk for the first time. In one year by 800000 people.

Angelina

Mr-TM Therefore, the Chinese population has shrunk for the first time. In one year by 800000 people.

Yes, in the future the problem will be more with India and some African countries. We don't have too many people, the population is just extremely unevenly distributed.

Cb85

Men can’t find a wife in China and have nothing to do do to girls being aborted.

Kaja

Cb85 ??

youdontknowme

Kaja One of the side effects of the one-child policy was that in many parts of the country, daughters became extremely unwanted. Traditionally, sons were needed to continue the family legacy, so a surprising amount of people who knew they were expecting a daughter did whatever they could to "get another try". Be it abort through legal or illegal means, secretly give birth and abandon the baby or whatever. Which means the generations that were born during the time of the one-child policy skew heavily male, which has affected the dating market quite a bit.

Cb85

Kaja most babies abortions happen to girls in China. The couple’s want boys.
So there’s not 1/2 boys 1/2 girls. It’s like 75% men now in China.
Very sad predicament for the men.

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