Andrew Have you considered that religion comes in different forms?

E.g. deep believers, but also "social practitioners that go a couple of times to the Church for old traditions".

(The fact that our "believers" are mostly the second kind, might be a reason why we need to import Polish priests 😉 )

Any way, that way you can have the funny situation that you have a society that might fill out on a survey "not very religious", but at the same time show preferences for traditions that would make a Jesuit wince about the medieval mindset. (Abusing the cheap preconceptions here)

BTW, I just described my in-laws, and according to my wife they are one of the most progressive ones in their village. (After the decades, I sadly have to agree, about my in-laws and about them being progressives in that hellhole,)

More general, a normative authority might influence a population even after it stopped being a normative authority, think for example about the end of Communism in Poland, it took also a generation (or be honest, more than one), before certain mindsets were gone (e.g. the need to "organize" stuff) from the general population.

      George Have you considered that religion comes in different forms?

      I thought about that too. Conservatism does not always go hand in hand with religion. It would seem that the rejection of religion in individual cases will also result in the rejection of certain beliefs that are a direct consequence of religious norms. As you can see (especially on this forum), however, this is not the case, and norms based on religion may in practice function in isolation from it (although then they lose their logic and persist, as it were, by the force of inertia). It also leads to paradoxical situations. I have always been convinced that Poland is a very conservative country, but I can see that in some secular circles in the West the attachment to traditional principles is much greater than in Poland, even among religious people.

      George we need to import Polish priests 😉

      Where are you from?

      George the need to "organize" stuff

      You must have had a lot of contacts with Poles if you know this term...... 😅

              Please... read the title of the topic...

                Andrew Where are you from?

                Austria, and the reality of the Austrian catholic church has been for the last decades that it has not been producing enough priests. While Poland for a time at least had an overproduction, so Austrian xenophobes had to live with priests with a strong accent 😆

                The capacity of not recognizing oneself in an image is almost limitless in humans 😅

                Andrew You must have had a lot of contacts with Poles if you know this term...... 😅

                Well, I'm not the youngest. I spent a decade as a consultant jumping around Europe. One collects all kind of curious tidbits with my CV.

                    Andrew

                    Andrew You must have had a lot of contacts with Poles if you know this term...... 😅

                    If you want another example, where societal policy and societal norms have divorced: PR China's one child policy: the party has decreed 2016 that "one child per family" is not okay anymore, but 2 generations have not known anything else but "dad-mum-kid" families, so despite that 2021 even 3 kid families were legalized, all kinds of subsidies for young families were introduced, the "societal norm" is still the 1 child family, and realistically will remain for the next decades so.

                    No matter what the "law of the country" says.

                          George

                          interesting how a law can become a social norm even if the law no longer exists. 😆

                            George "societal norm" is still the 1 child family

                            Therefore, the Chinese population has shrunk for the first time. In one year by 800000 people.

                                Men can’t find a wife in China and have nothing to do do to girls being aborted.

                                • Kaja replied to this.

                                  Kaja One of the side effects of the one-child policy was that in many parts of the country, daughters became extremely unwanted. Traditionally, sons were needed to continue the family legacy, so a surprising amount of people who knew they were expecting a daughter did whatever they could to "get another try". Be it abort through legal or illegal means, secretly give birth and abandon the baby or whatever. Which means the generations that were born during the time of the one-child policy skew heavily male, which has affected the dating market quite a bit.

                                    Kaja most babies abortions happen to girls in China. The couple’s want boys.
                                    So there’s not 1/2 boys 1/2 girls. It’s like 75% men now in China.
                                    Very sad predicament for the men.

                                    • Ines replied to this.

                                        Cb85 It’s like 75% men now in China.

                                        No! 52% of men. However, usually in every country there are more women, so China is an odd case.

                                            Ines i assume the 75% figure only takes into account singles in the typical dating age range. Total in the age range is estimated closer to 55-45 or maybe 60-40, to get anything near 75 you need to take couples out of the equation, too.

                                            But for 75% imbalance in the general population, you would need a lot more than 30 years of subtle cultural selection pressure.

                                            • Ines replied to this.

                                                youdontknowme i assume the 75% figure

                                                I guessed, but I did not find anything about it.

                                                  Mr-TM Therefore, the Chinese population has shrunk for the first time. In one year by 800000 people.

                                                  Yes, in the future the problem will be more with India and some African countries. We don't have too many people, the population is just extremely unevenly distributed.

                                                    I follow China uncensored and others that talk about the issues there.
                                                    There is a saying in China among young men there. “Let it lye” basically stop doing things and give up.
                                                    It’s a Very sad situation.

                                                    i think in china the population will continue to decline, due to the fact that in the period of the 1 child policy there were many more boys than girls (many girls were killed as babies), in the long run fewer children will be born.