Angelina @Christine had to wear the belt 24/7, I think that explains the position of her mother

Might be. But it might also be that denying her self pleasure was meant as punishment for whatever her mother thought she did wrong. We just don't know.

But if you are right and complete chastity without breaks for masturbation really reflects @Christine 's mothers values, then as a keyholder Christine should actually enforce these values instead of taking the more relaxed approach she has taken so far. After all, the belt in this case should actually help her mother live up to her own standards and not just to what Chrstine thinks is right.b

      We must always reflect on the long time of (what I, as outsider, might call highly questionable) interactions within Christine's family: With other singles, above all her mother, apparently not following their own high standards, while Christine was openly portrayed negatively.

      If I try to imagine that:

      • Other family members with same relationship situation, but not belted, not living chastely, even randomly sexing around, ...
      • while I - being convinced I could actually live chastely (whether a delusion or for real is different topic) - were the one put under pressure to wear and were made to look silly (about my past, my attitude, or whatever) in front of the above same family members for months and years.

      I think resentment was a rather logical consequence. And it might take long and considerable steps to improve the overall situation.

      curious Might be. But it might also be that denying her self pleasure was meant as punishment for whatever her mother thought she did wrong. We just don't know.

      the question is as punishment for what? getting divorced? better than living in an unhappy marriage. because she married early and was not mature enough? maybe, but she probably loved the man very much in the past. because she was financially dependent? can be, but better to live with the mother again than on the streets

        Angelina

        Or the family members of same marital status. I'm inclined to say: Especially ones naming and shaming Christine while sexing around themselves. (All assuming we know all relevant parts of the story.)

        Although I generally don't like the idea of chastity as punishment. :-| It deserves way better...

            That being said - and to get a bit more general and not make this a Christine-only Thread:

            The situation has reminded me about different concepts and variants of shame:

            If shame leads to positive social connection, (re-)integration, contemplation what one wants, support, and/or is part of needed inner cleansing, it can actually be helpful. Some researcher call that pro-social shame.

            Besides, let's face it: A failed marriage - at least in many societies I know - has also a lot of potential for shame of various kinds. Decide for yourself how you think about it.

            Anyway, if an unpleasant situation, a personal failure etc leads to alienation, pillory, humiliation, etc. then shame becomes anti-social, destructive. Even more so when interwoven with double-standards. (Like some family members preaching chastity for singles, but violating their own standards, while the one family member of all, that actually wears a belt (w/ supervised breaks, full-time), is hold up to ridicule.)

            I understand you're stance, but shame more times than not turns within and become a negative force that leads to self hatred and more social isolation. Shame means i'm not good enough. There is nothing good that comes from that mindset. Once shame is established it takes a great deal of work to overcome. A great deal of work and generally a great deal of time. I do find this forum to be one that people can actually disagree, thanks

            Owl

            well, i think if a mother imposes this heavy burden of 24/7 chastity on her daughter because she says that orgasms without a relationship are unacceptable, then the same should apply to herself.

                curious Did you ever ask your mother about her values?

                No, we didn't discuss masturbation and so on.

                Angelina as a former "victim" of your mother

                I don't feel like a "victim".

                Angelina are now the right key holder, it can put you in an emotionally difficult situation

                It's her choice after all.

                        Christine I don't feel like a "victim".

                        that's why the inverted commas, but it's similar to me and it triggers mixed feelings, the desire to take revenge is there, even if only subconsciously and as a key holder that's not a good prerequisite.

                            Angelina But then this must also apply to the mother herself.

                            Angelina well, i think if a mother imposes this heavy burden of 24/7 chastity on her daughter because she says that orgasms without a relationship are unacceptable, then the same should apply to herself.

                            You seem to think that @Christine is going too easy on her mother by giving her breaks, but...

                            Angelina that's why the inverted commas, but it's similar to me and it triggers mixed feelings, the desire to take revenge is there, even if only subconsciously and as a key holder that's not a good prerequisite.

                            You seem to also be worried that she will try to take revenge, presumably by somehow being more strict than she should be.

                            I'm confused. How can these both be true?

                                    Angelina
                                    The overall problem with @Christine and her mom seems to be, that each is only using the belt to project the own goals onto the other person and neither considers the goals of the actual wearer.

                                    When Christine's mother was the keyholder, she enforced 24/7 complete chastity with no breaks for masturbating, which we can therefore quite safely assume is her "goal" or "standard" for what she considers appropriate.

                                    Now the situation has changed and Christine is in the position of keyholder, but again instead of keeping her mother in complete chastity making sure she has no opportunity to masturbate (which was her mother's standard), Christine is applying her own standard to her mother, which allows for masturbating and only denies her sex with other men.

                                    I think both @Christine and her mother would benefit from not projecting their own wishes onto the other but carefully looking at what values each has demonstrated and then help each other to enforce those values.
                                    For Christine, that would be being belted again but with breaks for self gratification and in return she should keep her mother locked without any chance to touch herself.

                                        MissBlossom I'm confused. How can these both be true?

                                        I think the mother should also wear a belt, also 24/7, just like she expected from @Christine. However, I don't think @Christine is the right key holder because she could react too emotionally due to the past

                                        curious I think both @Christine and her mother would benefit from not projecting their own wishes onto the other but carefully looking at what values each has demonstrated and then help each other to enforce those values.
                                        For Christine, that would be being belted again but with breaks for self gratification and in return she should keep her mother locked without any chance to touch herself.

                                        I agree with the first part, but I don't know if I share the conclusions. it would then mean more restrictions for both sides than now, but maybe it's a good way

                                              Angelina I agree with the first part, but I don't know if I share the conclusions. it would then mean more restrictions for both sides than now, but maybe it's a good way

                                              Well, Christine does not tolerate her mother to "sleep around". So the "no sex but masturbation is allowed" policy is what reflects Christine's values. And that means those values should apply to her, rather than Christine just projecting those values onto her mother.

                                              I know that would result in both being more restricted, but it is better to live acording to your own values - even if that is not always convenient or comfortable - rather than just projecting those onto other people.

                                                  curious So the "no sex but masturbation is allowed" policy is what reflects Christine's values.

                                                  I would contradict exactly on this point, I think she doesn't have these values, but only does it because her mother apparently met men and she thinks it's wrong that her mother is allowed to do it but she isn't/wasn't

                                                      Christine curious Did you ever ask your mother about her values?

                                                      No, we didn't discuss masturbation and so on.

                                                      Discussion would help to resolve this issue. I think a keyholder should be able to raise such topics freely.

                                                          Angelina
                                                          Well, but she was not allowed to masturbate either.
                                                          And she has stated, that she does not care about her mother masturbating but she does care to make certain she cannot have sex with men.
                                                          To me that seems both actually agree that sex with random men should be forbidden but disagree on masturation. Mother is against masturbation (because she denied that for Christine) while Christine thinks masturbation is ok (because she does not care whether or not her mother does that).

                                                              curious

                                                              you might be right, but i would pass this question on to @Christine, so what exactly are her moral values. to me it sounds more like: "you didn't allow me to do something you do yourself, now you should have a belt too".

                                                                  Angelina
                                                                  If it was that simple, why then not use her mother's rules on herself rather than define new rules?

                                                                  But you are right, we need @Christine to answer that question because she is the only one who knows (or should know if she did not reflect on that point previsouly) while we can only speculate.