MissBlossom I'm confused. How can these both be true?

I think the mother should also wear a belt, also 24/7, just like she expected from @Christine. However, I don't think @Christine is the right key holder because she could react too emotionally due to the past

curious I think both @Christine and her mother would benefit from not projecting their own wishes onto the other but carefully looking at what values each has demonstrated and then help each other to enforce those values.
For Christine, that would be being belted again but with breaks for self gratification and in return she should keep her mother locked without any chance to touch herself.

I agree with the first part, but I don't know if I share the conclusions. it would then mean more restrictions for both sides than now, but maybe it's a good way

        Angelina I agree with the first part, but I don't know if I share the conclusions. it would then mean more restrictions for both sides than now, but maybe it's a good way

        Well, Christine does not tolerate her mother to "sleep around". So the "no sex but masturbation is allowed" policy is what reflects Christine's values. And that means those values should apply to her, rather than Christine just projecting those values onto her mother.

        I know that would result in both being more restricted, but it is better to live acording to your own values - even if that is not always convenient or comfortable - rather than just projecting those onto other people.

            curious So the "no sex but masturbation is allowed" policy is what reflects Christine's values.

            I would contradict exactly on this point, I think she doesn't have these values, but only does it because her mother apparently met men and she thinks it's wrong that her mother is allowed to do it but she isn't/wasn't

                Christine curious Did you ever ask your mother about her values?

                No, we didn't discuss masturbation and so on.

                Discussion would help to resolve this issue. I think a keyholder should be able to raise such topics freely.

                    Angelina
                    Well, but she was not allowed to masturbate either.
                    And she has stated, that she does not care about her mother masturbating but she does care to make certain she cannot have sex with men.
                    To me that seems both actually agree that sex with random men should be forbidden but disagree on masturation. Mother is against masturbation (because she denied that for Christine) while Christine thinks masturbation is ok (because she does not care whether or not her mother does that).

                        curious

                        you might be right, but i would pass this question on to @Christine, so what exactly are her moral values. to me it sounds more like: "you didn't allow me to do something you do yourself, now you should have a belt too".

                            Angelina
                            If it was that simple, why then not use her mother's rules on herself rather than define new rules?

                            But you are right, we need @Christine to answer that question because she is the only one who knows (or should know if she did not reflect on that point previsouly) while we can only speculate.

                                @Angelina @curious you may be overthinking this with all this deep philosophical talk about values.

                                Christine I unlock it when come and make sure it's locked when leave.

                                Supervising showers or cleanings is work. If you don't care, you might not want to do all that extra work. It's much easier to just unlock when you arrive and lock when you leave.

                                    MissBlossom
                                    I would argue that if as keyholder you are not prepared to take on that extra work, that indicates that you do not value the wearer enough and should never hold his/her key in the first place.

                                        curious If it was that simple, why then not use her mother's rules on herself rather than define new rules?

                                        Maybe it seemed a bit harsh or not 100% enforceable, maybe she was worried her mother would then refuse.

                                        MissBlossom Supervising showers or cleanings is work. If you don't care, you might not want to do all that extra work. It's much easier to just unlock when you arrive and lock when you leave.

                                        of course, but someone who does not care enough about the wearer of the belt is absolutely not a suitable key holder in my eyes.

                                              Angelina someone who does not care enough about the wearer of the belt is absolutely not a suitable key holder in my eyes.

                                              I was talking about not caring about masturbation, not not caring about the wearer. @Christine obviously cares a great deal about her mother.

                                                  MissBlossom

                                                  maybe because (as i mentioned in my last post) she was afraid that her mother wouldn't agree otherwise

                                                    MissBlossom Sarcastic answer: Don't worry, these will overlap greatly with places that tightly regulate abortions, it's a very American mindset that you share with Saudi Arabia and Iran.

                                                      MissBlossom But once you let boys and girls be alone together, you've basically given up on keeping them from going too far, so you need to teach them how to do it safely.

                                                      One needs to teach young people about the various methods of birth control, one of which is not doing it. I think my primary complaint about this forum is the attitude that they are going to do it so clap them into a belt (and then claim they agree).

                                                      I realize you didn't say that, you said teach them. I just get frustrated.

                                                        5 days later

                                                        Jonas Discussion would help to resolve this issue

                                                        I don't see an issue so far.

                                                        MissBlossom When do you want to go so far?

                                                        Probably never.

                                                              Christine Probably never.

                                                              out of fear that your mother might refuse, or because you don't want it yourself?

                                                                  5 days later

                                                                  Christine Because I'm fine now.

                                                                  this is the most important thing, but does not really answer my question 😉