Milord Anymore, security is a mindset. For someone that consider control more important than security

I would consider such a person unsuitable to act as a keyholder. I know there are several examples on this board of wearers who are/were in precisely that situation and I think most of the community agreed that their keyholders were crossing the line.

Milord as for Laura's parents, what can happens? Maybe nothing. But what if....

Certainly, there are risks with their approach. Ultimately, Laura is an adult and can decide for herself if the risks outweigh the benefits in her case. I have already done my analysis and concluded that they don't in general but there is a lot about her situation that I don't know. She might see benefits that we missed, she might have other protections in place to help mitigate the risks so they are less significant, and/or she might simply assign different weight to the factors involved than we do.

@Laura I know you are typically quite reserved about this kind of discussion, but I think we would all like to hear your thoughts.

        pestulens apologise to @Laura if she felt offended, but honestly there are situations I'm unable to consider healthy. But I will hear and reconsider, as I already done for Ines

            Bryan What do you see as the "cons" for an emergency key

            Too free an interpretation of "emergency"

            Milord Safety should be a primary concern of everyone, ESPECIALLY of parents.

            As @Tjc said the belt can broken easily

            pestulens It will take willpower to not use the emergency key when you shouldn't.

            Right

            pestulens If your motivation for wearing is about feeling secure, having an emergency key might interfere with that.

            An cope with a situation too

            Milord but honestly there are situations I'm unable to consider healthy.

            Why? If all sides agree

                        Laura As @Tjc said the belt can broken easily

                        I have made an example of a situation. Nothing too exotic. If you have an emorragy and noone is here to help you could open OR wait for emergency medical services to come losing precious time (for arrival) and other time (for removing).

                        Now can you explain what is you or your parents issue in having a sealed key? You want to stay in, so the problem is?

                            Laura Why? If all sides agree

                            Do you really believe that it is sufficient that all agree to make something healthy? a lot of people stay voluntarily in abusive relationship. It's healthy? Consent is always necessary, but it's not always sufficient.
                            If my wife agrees to be beaten so much that I send her to the hospital, you will consider this healthy because she agreed?

                            • Joh likes this.

                              Milord Now can you explain what is you or your parents issue in having a sealed key?

                              It will be opened right a way and "emergency" will be invented later 😂

                              Milord You want to stay in, so the problem is?

                              It wasn't always like it's now

                              • Tjc likes this.

                                  Milord 1) call your keyholder to urgently get there and open you
                                  2) call emergency medical services and wait for them to open you
                                  3) use hacksaw or other tools
                                  4) use emergency key

                                  5) go to the emergency room or hospital where you will need to be treated for whatever is causing the unbearable pain, have them remove the belt, and treat what is causing the pain.

                                      Tjc this is immensely less efficient than emergency key.

                                      Anyway, I think I made my point very clear. Emergency key should be mandatory for any belting scenario. Then, everyone is free to take their risk. In the end life is a matter of choice.

                                        VivianChaste Sorry for taking over your thread like that. It was an important discussion but probably not something you need to worry about at the moment.

                                          VivianChaste

                                          Let's put it this way. Any scenario or configuration you want to use, please have an emergency key.

                                            VivianChaste
                                            You can start with a time locked key safe. Start with short time, an hour for example, and go from there and see how that goes. Maybe one day you will find a kh you can trust.

                                            An other option could be a number locked key safe and use chaster.app (free to use) to keep the number of your safe hidden until release. And yes it is easy to cheat if you make a note of the number but that's up to you.
                                            If you would start using chaster always make sure to choose a lock with a defined maximum duration. Maximum time can be minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, and indefinite. Always read carefully what a chaster lock does. You can create a lock of your own and configure it the way you like. But NEVER forget to set the maximum time or you may get far more than you bargained for. It also is possible to invite a kh to control your lock. If you have set a maximum time the kh cannot keep you locked longer than that unless you choose to set the option to trust the kh. The good thing is the kh can set you free immediately so you have some safety there. You can get to know each other in a safe and controlled way while the kh can be anywhere. But remember to always set a maximum time limit for your safety. And make sure you always have some backup if anything goes wrong.

                                            You have a lot of information now. Enjoy whatever you choose to do.

                                              Laura This destroys the whole idea

                                              Milord But may I gently ask you and @Tjc to avoid endorsing an unsafe behavior?

                                              so, having an emergency key is always the better alternative, but the system will only work if the key holder notices when the key is being used. @Sara2001 had a good system for this with sealed envelopes, the keys were always accessible but never without the knowledge of the key holder. however, an emergency key only helps if it is quickly accessible in an emergency. in my case, the emergency key (in the safe in the living room) would have been of no use when I was out and about

                                              VivianChaste Well uh thats unexpected. Im still unsure as i dont even have a keyholder yet to worry about keys...

                                              sorry if the discussion is drifting a bit, but maybe you can take something with you in case you find a key holder 😉

                                                      Angelina but the system will only work if the key holder notices when the key is being used.

                                                      You can always find a good reason why the emergency key was used

                                                          Laura You can always find a good reason why the emergency key was used

                                                          It seems to me if your powers of persuasion were that strong you would have gotten rid of your belt years ago. 🤣

                                                          More seriously, what constitutes a good enough reason is obviously subjective and will be a judgment call in the moment. However, the implementation will obviously require a conversation between the wearer and the keyholder where they come to an understanding about what kind of situation the key is for and what the consequences will be if it is misused.

                                                              Got a feeling Laura would make a most excellent keyholder haha.

                                                                Milord But may I gently ask you and @Tjc to avoid endorsing an unsafe behavior?

                                                                Not having an emergency key is a very dangerous thing. If I need to explain it I will, but I hope that is pretty obvious.

                                                                I would never endorse an unsafe behavior. I would presume to tell others what they should do. I only try to relate my experience and share things I have learned through years of actually wearing a belt. It is, I think, necessary, for me (and my accountability partner) to consider risks and plan to deal with them.
                                                                It could be possible for me to have an emergency key. However, if I keep it at home, then there is the risk that I need it when away from home and I would not have it. If I carry it with me, there is the risk that it becomes lost, damaged, or stolen and I would not have it. It is less risky, for us, to plan that in an emergency, I would rely on emergency services to remove the belt either on site, or at a hospital, if necessary. This also handles the situation when I may be incapacitated and not able to access an emergency or be able to tell someone how to access it. Relying on the single point of failure of an emergency key is vastly more risky that relying on the hospital and emergency services infrastructure.
                                                                I do not think what we do is the right way for anyone else. It would be wrong for me to tell other people what they should do. I can only describe what works (and has worked for a long time) for us.

                                                                    Tjc Relying on the single point of failure of an emergency key is vastly more risky that relying on the hospital and emergency services infrastructure.

                                                                    The presence or absence of an ermergency key has absolutely no bearing on whether or not emergency services could destructively remove the belt. If the situation is dire and they have the tools at hand, they can cut it off even if you lost the key or left it somewhere. On the other hand, if the tools are not at hand, having to wait for the tool to be brought in delays emergency response. And if the issue is one where you are conscious enough to retrieve and use the key, it means you avoid taking up limited emergency service resources.

                                                                    The ability to call emergency services is of course vital for any safety strategy, but it should always be one layer of many. Like a slice of swiss cheese, every safety layer has holes, and we avoid them by stacking more layers so there are fewer places where multiple holes line up.

                                                                      Tjc Relying on the single point of failure of an emergency key is vastly more risky that relying on the hospital and emergency services infrastructure

                                                                      What prevents to have both (and more) in place?
                                                                      Like… since I have safety belt, I can’t use airbag. This is very silly.

                                                                      More experience people should advice less experienced one. This is the way things improve.

                                                                      As much as you can against my approach, security is an entirely different matter, one that should always be considered.

                                                                        pestulens t seems to me if your powers of persuasion were that strong you would have gotten rid of your belt years ago.

                                                                        That's why my keys are in parents' safe 😂

                                                                        pestulens More seriously, what constitutes a good enough reason is obviously subjective and will be a judgment call in the moment.

                                                                        It comes from days when I often "forgot" to put on the belt

                                                                        VivianChaste Got a feeling Laura would make a most excellent keyholder haha.

                                                                        If I have kids, yes