Purpose of preventing masturbation?
because the whole thing has triggered quite a discussion and i would always like to end a discussion peacefully, i wonder what is proven science for you.
for me, proven science is when no one can prove the opposite. but when it comes to mastubation, i think that's almost impossible. of course there's the biological side that will always talk positively about it, but what about the psychological side? i don't have the impression that psychological science agrees on this, because whether masturbation is harmful also depends, in my opinion, on what would have been done in the place of mastubation if he/she had not masturbated and how masturbation affects behaviour and performance after masturbation.
I know it sounds complicated but that is my point, it is complicated.
Angelina, I love your posts. You are so young but have a real ability to think and express yourself – particularly amazing since I know English is not your first language.
The question of what is science is, is often debated. Many people use the word in attempt to support their arguments and points of view; including times when those arguments are in diametric opposition. You state for instance that “science is proven” when no one can prove the opposite argument. I understand what you are saying, but that isn’t really correct. Often it is impossible to prove an argument incorrect perhaps because the experiment is too difficult to perform (too many variables) or it could be unethical to perform. Medical science often bumps into ethical dilemmas.
Generally, a hypothesis (which is basically a guess about something) is advanced to the status of theory when an experiment confirms the hypothesis and the experiment is repeatable and conducted by others. Stronger confirmation is achieved by performing other experiments that also confirm the original hypothesis. In one sense, however nothing is ever proven to be true. Even the best accepted theories of how things work, or what they are made of etc, should be capable of falsification if a better experiment, or better experimental method is conceived. In a sense, any scientific theory can only be disproved, never ultimately confirmed. There is no ultimate truth. A good theory should thus never be considered to be proven absolutely by those who promote it. To do so confuses science with faith and religion.
But science comes in many flavours depending on the nature of the phenomena being observed. Physics for instance is generally considered the prototype of the scientific method. This is often because the number of phenomena being considered at any one time is relatively small (or even just one – say the speed of light). Sadly, biology and medicine are study phenomena that are made up of gigantic number of separate phenomena that are often exquisitely sensitive to the experimental method being used.
Consider psychology which is the study of what is the most complex mechanism we have ever studied; the brain. It is made up of trillions of neurons, each made of a ginormous number of molecular processes all going on at once. In a real sense there is no way we could ever understand it on a discrete level. Understanding how it all works and interacts can only be viewed on a statistical level. Any experiment is vastly cruder than any experiment performed in physics. And repeatability can only be considered in terms of statistics.
Thus, when it comes to statements like “masturbation can cause harm” – well masturbation is a giant process within a incredibly complex subsystems which chaotically intertwined. Any statement you say about it, like countless other processes is likely to be true (or false) given a fixed set of circumstances.
“Scientifically” speaking no life process (eating, drinking, sleeping, pooping, masturbating etc.) is without risk. If you are masturbating when the lion is coming to eat you, then you will suffer. Just as you would if sleeping. Statistically speaking, the dangers increase the more you masturbate. Also, masturbation is an activity that uses energy (that you might need to use to run away). Thus consider an organism that is able to give its self-pleasure, endlessly, to the exclusion of all other activities. Such an organism would likely die of exhaustion before it could reproduce and thus would tend to evolve itself out of existence. This is probably why continual masturbation ultimately is not something our (or any other) species engages in. After a while we literally become satiated until a down period has expired. Masturbation past a certain point ceases to be pleasurable … for a time.
How long that period is varies and there is likely a large spectrum across humanity. Some indeed will masturbate more than others, possibly to the exclusion of other activities. This may indeed be harmful – after all the more you do it the more likely you are to be eaten by the lion – smiles.
But such people tend to be outliers. Even those people tend to stop when other aspects of their life become fulfilling. The truth seems to be, from what science has been conducted, that people who masturbate chronically have other psychological issues that if resolved, resolves their chronic masturbation. Masturbation itself doesn’t appear to cause psychological issues, more likely it is a result of other issues (or external circumstances). When these issues are resolved the chronic masturbators will stop. In fact, I believe I have read of small studies where chronic masturbators became worse psychologically if they are physically prevented from masturbating – something that has been seen in prisons.
As you point out, it is complicated and I suspect it is like all psychological science. To come up with definitive answers will always be unlikely, since it is nearly always impossible to control for all the other factors that might not even be suspected. For most of us however it does seem that masturbation is harmless, nor is it harmful when the individual chooses not to masturbate. In a way it is something that evolutions has gifted us, and like the sex act with a loving partner, something that can be treasured. But like too much caviar, a surfeit to the exclusion of anything else is likely not good for the psyche. Its just that in my book, it is up to the masturbator when enough is enough and ethically they shouldn’t be subject to the control of others unless (for their own reasons) they desire it.
Sorry if my lecture is boring – smiles.
- Edited
Angelina In my case the physics part is easy to test...
Q: "Does physical intervention relieve the symptoms of pudendal nerve impingement?"
A: "Yes!!"
Sometimes it's only a brief respite and there are other methods that provide relief over the long term, and that's what I'm trying to concentrate on now (hence why I sometimes choose to wear a chastity belt). But it's taken 15 years of yoga to get to a point where it's manageable. When I was younger and we weren't sure what was going on with my body, masturbation was necessary for me to be able to function. And while my condition is relatively rare, there are a huge number of common situations that might require a similar intervention... endometriosis, period pain, EDS etc etc. The list goes on and on (and on).
Regarding psychological issues... I was exposed to the same societal expectations as everyone else. I was branded "dirty", "filthy", "unladylike" and that all-time favourite "a slut", (and that's just from my mum). The science was far from perfect by the way... I was incorrectly diagnosed as hypersexual despite being a virgin (and still a child), I took anti psychotics / SSRIs to "fix my uncontrollable urges". As recently as the 1960s, women like me were institutionalised for being "hysterical".
I won't go into the problems associated with giving a perfectly healthy child antipsychotics / antidepressants when there's nothing inherently wrong with them, or the suicidal clusterfuck that is medication withdrawal. Suffice to say that my teenage years were a little "challenging".
The main reason for all this is because masturbation was viewed as The Problem. The fact that I managed to come out of the other side a happy, healthy, well balanced(?) individual is nothing short of a miracle. I can't help but think of all the other women out there who are racked with guilt and suffering unimaginable physical pain, women who will never be given the opportunities I had simply because of where they were born, or because their parent / guardian / abuser has absolutely no f***ing idea how the human body actually works.
Regarding psychology issues associated with masturbating... My view on the subject is that long term, sustained mental and physical abuse is likely to be far more damaging psychologically than just rubbing one out. When I see inter-generational abuse being perpetuated due to ignorance, cultural expectations, warped religious indoctrination or whatever, I generally try to encourage people to break the cycle.
(Yes, I get triggered by these things!).
Also I apologise if I come across as too self-righteous... I don't mean to get on my high horse and I don't want to tell anyone how to live their life, I just tend to get fired up over such things because I have been directly affected by it.
I'm new to the forum and I'm still trying to figure out what's real and what's not. I like that we can have interesting discussions that transcend cultures, political viewpoints etc (however hard that might be to take sometimes).
I'm still learning a lot when it comes to my own chastity experience, and I will never be as "hardcore" as some of the people on here. I'm not advocating for all of you to cut your belts off and masturbate furiously (although I would love to see that!).
I guess if I can contribute anything, it's that I would like potential abusers to read my story and recognise that if you inflict your own hangups onto your loved ones, you risk doing damage in ways you have never even considered.
And if you're a guy fantasising about such things, it's pretty obvious to those of us with an actual vagina. By all means fantasise, but be aware that by writing your fictional accounts on a forum like this there is a risk that uneducated people will see it as some kind of instruction manual for what is "possible" (I use that term loosely). Be better.
And now I shall get off my high horse. 
Foxies You are so young but have a real ability to think and express yourself – particularly amazing since I know English is not your first language.
(& @Angelina )
Yeah I agree too but also I just can't imagine what it is like where you live. And how you cope and how your life works I guess despite it all. I used to think like isolated country town if Germany has that- but now I think rich. Does your father have a lot of money does that help shield him.
Foxies Sorry if my lecture is boring – smiles.
no it wasn't boring, because...
Foxies As you point out, it is complicated
....and you have written this complicated in a very beautiful text, i am absolutely thrilled how detailed you have described it unfortunately, i can't express myself like you, at least not in english, and due to time constraints, i would only like to comment on one point. ....
Foxies In a sense, any scientific theory can only be disproved, never ultimately confirmed.
... that was the crux of the matter, if someone says that science has proven something, it can't really be proven? so it's just the current state of affairs until it's disproven right?
Sin Regarding psychological issues... I was exposed to the same societal expectations as everyone else. I was branded "dirty", "filthy", "unladylike" and that all-time favourite "a slut", (and that's just from my mum). The science was far from perfect by the way... I was incorrectly diagnosed as hypersexual despite being a virgin (and still a child), I took anti psychotics / SSRIs to "fix my uncontrollable urges". As recently as the 1960s, women like me were institutionalised for being "hysterical".
i certainly don't want you to think that's what i'm saying. i don't mind anyone masturbating as much as they want. i also think it's wrong to judge anyone for that, i'm with you all the way on that. i was just concerned with your choice of words no more no less.
PS: i am surprised that such long answers came up, i thought it could be answered in 2 to 3 sentences.
Sin I guess if I can contribute anything, it's that I would like potential abusers to read my story and recognise that if you inflict your own hangups onto your loved ones, you risk doing damage in ways you have never even considered.
that's understandable, almost everyone here has a goal and almost everyone here wants to help, the paths are different but the goals are the same. i'm here to help girls who the decision has already been made, so they learn to deal with it as best they can
Angelina i'm here to help girls who the decision has already been made, so they learn to deal with it as best they can
This is such a good point. Assuming they are not trolls, there are some stories here where a girl has limited or no choice. While the stories are tragic (and make me angry that others do this to them) unless you walk in their shoes it and understand the issues and choices they are presented with, it could well be counterproductive to criticise their situation or handling of their choices.
The best and most human thing we can do is to offer useful advice, based on our own experience in a respectful and understanding manner that would make their circumstances easier, more comfortable and hopefully make them happier with their lot in life. The last thing we should ever do is increase their burden. Perhaps we should remember the meaning of an oath I took so many, many, years ago. "Do no harm!"
And Angelina, I see that is what you continue to do on an almost daily basis. I wish I could claim to be as thoughtful.
However,if most studies tell it's not bad,while a few others tell it is,as long as all studies were made by skilled scientists,the ones telling it is not bad are probably right.
Me too.
Foxies Sorry if my lecture is boring – smiles.
Not at all,very interesting!
Sin be aware that by writing your fictional accounts on a forum like this there is a risk that uneducated people will see it as some kind of instruction manual
One of the reasons we try to make trolls leave.
Angelina so it's just the current state of affairs until it's disproven right?
There is a lot of such examples in history.
very kind of you to say and i admire you for your way of expressing yourself. i try a lot to help here but unfortunately i can't express myself like you but i am working on it
Vanessa There is a lot of such examples in history.
of course, there were also people who believed that the earth was a disc and some of them were scientists and not just crazy catholics. 