Laura But cultural traditions

A tradition which has the same result as when you flip a coin. It can bring shame on a woman who has not had sex.

Ines I think that it is something very valuable,

No one is disputing your view here. That is not the point. The virginity test is unreliable and this is the problem.

Laura In my opinion, it's not a government's business.

If this leads to exclusion, psychological problems, suicides or crimes, it is the state's task to do something about it.

          Joh the same result as when you flip a coin

          You know, that it's not. Probability is much higher than 50%

          • Joh replied to this.

              Joh That is not the point. The virginity test is unreliable and this is the problem.

              Well, I am a bit surprised about so much physicians neglecting identifying the membrane.
              However, it is true that in Medicine School do not train us for this, and maybe is a practice for doctors with some experience in the field.
              Obviously I can not I refute the study since I do not have any, but I do perceive a certain bias due to ideology.
              When they talk about the failures of the doctors, they do not say whether it is due to lack of training or due to the effective lack of differences between the membranes, and, which may be logical out of modesty, possible habits that have destroyed the hymen of these women are not specified, also accepting their version without contrast.
              The truth is that the fear with which they face the consequences of failing these tests is terrifying.
              There is no right to that either.

                Laura You know, that it's not. Probability is much higher than 50%

                As far as I understood it right the probability for a wrong non-virginity result is much higher.

                Kellog et al. studied a cohort in the United States with definitive evidence of previous vaginal penetration. In the study of 26 pregnant adolescents who reported sexual abuse, 22 participants (64%) had normal or nonspecific genital examination findings, eight (22%) had inconclusive findings, four (8%) had suggestive findings, and two (6%) had findings of definite evidence of vaginal penetration [23].

                64% clearly wrong and only 8% rite that she is no virgin.

                  Ines they do not talk about possible injuries of membrane due masturbation

                  There is a thesis for your final year of medicine! 😄

                  I can't speak for others but I would guess that most girls would just want to play the downstairs DJ, rather than explore the depths of the bat cave... especially at a young age.

                  Best to keep your nails short just in case though!

                  • Joh likes this.

                    Ines With young onvicts, not arrested but in the jail, it should be mandatory, as forensic proof that they have not suffered abuse and that, in the sentence, they do not spend their time doing inappropriate things.

                    Ines in the sentence, they do not spend their time doing inappropriate things.

                    I hate this comment and I think it is wrong. Lots of very wrong comments are posted here but not normally by you. Criminals in prison are still people. Their punishment is to be locked away from society not dehumanised. Not forced into mandatory hymen checks.

                          Jen
                          I guess we can not agree in everything...
                          Of course they are persons, but I am not talking about miss treat them but about certain discipline.
                          Time in jail can not be "leisure" time in my opinion.
                          I am a little surprised that you consider that because I didn't allow those habits in prison, I didn't consider those girls people.
                          I think you give much more importance to this point than me.

                          • Jen replied to this.

                              Ines I think you give much more importance to this point than me

                              It's the forced virginity checks - the idea of it is as bad as a forced chastity belt. Like I don't know and haven't thought about what's allowed in prison - but using it as an excuse for forced checks.. no no

                                  First of all I would like to thank @Sin, a very interesting topic.

                                  To be honest, I'm a little surprised because I think they're two completely different things. I personally don't think much of virginity tests because the hymen can also tear through other activities. but i think the restoration of the hymen is something that can also be beautiful. For example, if I were to be raped, I would like to have that option.

                                  i think it's right when the state takes action, when it happens against a woman's will and in any case when violence plays a role, but what about those who want it voluntarily?

                                  I see it frankly like @Laura. It's none of the state's business, it's not a medical issue, as has already been correctly written here, but an emotional one. I frankly find it disgusting when a government presumes to make decisions about a person's body

                                  I could write more about this, but I don't want to write about being politically enraged again, so I'll leave it at that

                                  Jen
                                  It is good for girls too, in order to avoid abuses inside jail.
                                  However, I think I give to this less importance than you, (I respect you approach).

                                  • Jen likes this.

                                    Jen It's the forced virginity checks - the idea of it is as bad as a forced chastity belt.

                                    You don't need a special law if you are forced. There are laws against it already

                                        Laura You don't need a special law if you are forced. There are laws against it already.

                                        Often it's the police / military / jailers / employers who do it.

                                          is it even allowed to do this in prisons? @Jen is right, criminals are still human beings and have at least basic human rights.

                                          • Sin replied to this.
                                          • Kaja likes this.

                                            Angelina They do it in Turkey under the guise of obtaining evidence of sexual assault whilst in custody... the fact that the act itself constitutes assault seems to be lost on them. Or perhaps that's the point...

                                            It's prevalent thoughout Muslim countries (Egypt, Iran, Indonesia to name a few), and perhaps not surprisingly, many conservative Christian countries like Russia.

                                                Sin

                                                that is inhumane, it should be up to everyone whether it happens privately (as long as everyone agrees), but no state has the right to order or tolerate such things in state institutions and prisons belong to it

                                                  Sin They do it in Turkey under the guise of obtaining evidence of sexual assault whilst in custody...

                                                  And probably, at beginning is not bad idea, probably in some countries, abuses are probable.
                                                  Probably too, the good first idea was twisted.

                                                    You don't need to be a doctor to check your daughter's hymen.

                                                      The theory is very nice, but it will continue to be done. It's preferable for a nurse to do it rather than for a dirty old woman to do it clandestinely.

                                                      HHelen You don't need to be a doctor to check your daughter's hymen.

                                                      that is true, but for one thing the standard of hygiene is higher and for another there is no risk of accidentally destroying the hymen during the check.