Moral and legal questions on belting
For a general remark on moral and legal issues around the world, I allow myself to recycle a remark I wrote in Jenna's thread: https://unwedchastity.org/d/680-belting-for-nieces/1398 . IMO debates will persist, as long as humans exist with their very own and often very different perspectives on what is desirable and what not. And yes, this includes even different interpretation of universally declared human rights.
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Owl Personal question: After you read forum messages and got engaged in first discussion the last day, are you currently upset because you want to help people involved and want to protect against abuse?
No, I understand that they are mostly fake. I'm still disturbed by some, but I understand that the only power I have is to explain and show things
Milord (not a difficult thing: not having the key, they can't get rid by themself)
Disagree. I can revoke the consent in any moment, but obviously, the backbone is that I do not have the key. Otherwise... What consent can I revoke?
Milord I'm pretty confident that most people that write here, should they decide to ask legal help,
I believe you are mixing things, every active user is +18 consent adult, and no, most of users do not "should" ask for legal help.
Every victim of abuse should ask for it, but, again, you will not find it here, and if you find it, again, flag it and I will erase such story.
A lot of what you write has been extensively discussed on this forum, and it seems to me most members share your views, I know I do.
Just for dialectic satisfaction, allow me to tell a little consent story. When I was 21 - which is the minimum age for gambling in my country - we went to a posh casino two hours drive away with a bunch of student friends. We dressed up for the occasion, and most of us lacked any gambling motivation, but looked forward to be part of an elegant "grown up" evening.
To my surprise, one of the guys in our group that I didn't know well approached me before we entered the casino and handed me a - for student terms - quite substantial amount in Euro bills, charmingly explaining that he might have a bit of a gambling problem and really can't afford to lose this money; I should only give it back to him upon getting back home later that night. I exchanged glances with our common friend; she smiled back assuringly and I took the money.
During the evening, our gambling friend seemed to revise his decision after losing the money he had on him and, again very charmingly, explained he now needs the money back to make up for his losses. I refused, as instructed, and thought he'd just playfully try out if I was reliable. He laughed more, fraternized, we exchanged friendly little stories, he insisted on getting back his money, got a little pushier. I checked back with our common friend and decided to keep his money in my pocket. I only gave it back to him when we arrived back in our home town, which he explicitly thanked me and our common friend for on the spot, and again a few days later.
This felt awkward for all of us three. We had not accepted his revocation of consent, and that is always problematic, even if it seems to have been the right decision there and then.
Well, I think that it is not comparable.
I think too that in serious usage of chastity belt has to exist a "cold down period" to see that revoking is firm.
Of course I am not talking of weeks or months as some people said, but some hours o few days is OK.
Wearers want keyholders, not wardrobes to put the key.
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Ines Disagree. I can revoke the consent in any moment, but obviously, the backbone is that I do not have the key. Otherwise... What consent can I revoke?
And this is why part of the consent is missing, and so pretty easy to prove the abuse.
Ines I believe you are mixing things, every active user is +18 consent adult, and no, most of users do not "should" ask for legal help.
The complete phrase is not that they should, but that if they should, they can have them incarcerated. Here the complete phrase
Milord I'm pretty confident that most people that write here, should they decide to ask legal help, can very easily sue their keyholder and probably also have them incarcerated for sexual abuse.
Damien This felt awkward for all of us three. We had not accepted his revocation of consent, and that is always problematic, even if it seems to have been the right decision there and then.
I enjoyed your story, but be aware that sexual matters is not like lending money. It's a very sensitive topic.
Milord I'm pretty confident that most people that write here, should they decide to ask legal help, can very easily sue their keyholder and probably also have them incarcerated for sexual abuse.
Milord The complete phrase is not that they should, but that if they should, they can have them incarcerated. Here the complete phrase
That is the thing. Of the people here who had been locked up before their 18th birthday, none of them want their parents sent to gaol. That is what makes the issue so much more complicated. They love their parents, but not that one thing their parents do.
Getting the authorities involved becomes a much easier thing when the expected outcome is actually the outcome you want, but for most less-than-voluntary wearers who posted here, that is not the case.
Damien I checked back with our common friend and decided to keep his money in my pocket. I only gave it back to him when we arrived back in our home town, which he explicitly thanked me and our common friend for on the spot, and again a few days later.
That is ultimately the difference between using a chastity belt as a toy and using it as protection: what constitutes revocation of consent.
I absolutely believe that if the wearer clearly communicates that they no longer consent to wearing the belt, in the absence of an agreement to the contrary, the keyholder's only acceptable action is to remove the belt immediately. I furthermore believe that the keyholder has no business trying to pressure, guilt or persuade the wearer into making an agreement that alters this basic principle. But if every single one of these conditions is met:
- the wearer wants to use the belt for a goal other than sexual play
- they do not trust themself to not abuse the standard consent rules of sexual interactions
- the wearer fully trusts the keyholder in having their well-being at heart
- there is a clearly definied maximum timespan before the consent question has to be resolved (which involves ending the current keyholding arrangement if there is any doubt about consent at the end of it)
- that timespan is only as long as it needs to be to address the wearer's self-trust issues
- the wearer enters that agreement freely, enthusiastically and fully informed about what it entails
I believe a cooldown period may be acceptable.
The belted girls and boys are better than me. I dearly loved my parents, and I still miss my father, but should they have done what they did to them, I would have no qualm in sending them to jail.
Ines No. If I have the key.... What consent have I to revoke?
I tried to prove another point: Normally gathering evidence of abuse is difficult. In this case it's immensely easy, because you DON'T have the key.
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Continuation from extended introduction ( https://unwedchastity.org/d/1-introductions/5303 ):
Milord This is a crime. [...] This is a major offense, for sure worth of some years in jail.
My I have an opinion toward the fact that a major crime [...]
Not judging. Just considering.
Allow me a perhaps philosophical, but IMHO also (somewhat) practical remark: As a lawyer, you must face the confrontation with the following question: How can there be crime, without rules (in this case laws) judged by persons?
Milord Normally gathering evidence of abuse is difficult. In this case it's immensely easy, because you DON'T have the key.
You might be simplifying things here. Not every locked collar, bracelet or belt on your body constitutes sexual abuse. Maybe you've exchanged keys with a friend. Or just left it at home. Sometimes is has symbolic or erotic value. Getting rid of it is as easy as visiting the local fire brigade.
Ah, not everybody wants to go to the authorities? Then they might be under psychological pressure, which is at least as powerful as a 2mm steel band. You're an experienced dom, do I even have to elaborate?
All I can really say at this point to @Milord: