Thomas I would say that for most it is not an "illness" but a difference in brain wiring due to differences in genetics and hormonal function. For some though it can feel like an illness for sure.

that's why the term diagnosis is always a bit difficult to formulate here, but that's true for almost all mental "illnesses". the problem i have with it is that it is presented as something wrong, i.e. a deviation from the normal healthy state. for me it is simply a different character, nothing more and nothing less.

      Angelina For many people it is simply a difference in brain wiring, the problem starts when they are forced or expected to function in the same way that someone with "normal" brain wiring would. Then they can never measure up and will always be considered to have something wrong with them when it is just a difference.

      Diet issues and toxicity especially from vaccines can be what makes something which is just a difference in processing and turns it into a disability or a real big issue. Vaccinated kids are 3 times more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD... it doesn't cause it just makes the symptoms worse.

          Thomas

          well, the question is at what point do we speak of a mental illness and what is defined as a normal deviation from standard behaviour? that's what i always see a bit critically

              10 days later

              Angelina I think that the idea of it being a mental illness varies depending on the culture and how ADHD friendly it is. South American culture is much more ADHD friendly I have heard and what they would call a mental illness and what a very strict German culture would call mental illness are very different. So perspective and societal demands change how it is viewed. Many people who have ADHD are very happy with themselves it is only when the more neurotypical demands of others are placed on them that they become unhappy, feel inadequate and can have mental health issues.

              There are other very severe people who have other issues and perhaps very severe deficiences or biological imbalances whose condition prevents them from functioning at any level in the world and that would be considered by many to be a mental illness. The fact remains though that it isn't often a problem with the mind but most often the body which is causing symptoms in the mind. The adage that it is all in your head is seldom true..

                  Thomas The adage that it is all in your head is seldom true..

                  and there we have different opinions, i would even go so far as to say that the opposite is true. everything that takes place in the mind has an effect on the body, but it always starts in the mind.
                  I highly recommend the books by Christian Schubert in this context (I'm sure there are also English translations).
                  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Schubert_(Mediziner)

                      19 days later

                      My doctor diagnosed me with adhd at FOUR years old. I was on over a dozen different drugs for over a decade when I refused to take them anymore.
                      I never had it I was just a little boy that didn’t get disciplined enough by my crazy mother.

                      So I have a skewed view of it due to my resentment of being drugged for so long for no reason.

                        21 days later

                        Angelina Yes technically ADHD is in the mind seeing that it is the way that the brain processes things which is different, the wiring of the brain is different. However, the concept of "being all in your head" in English meaning that it is imagined not biological is what I am disagreeing with.

                        Cb85 I am sorry that you were subjected to that kind of abuse. I wish I could take meds, but unfortunately I am left with what little I can do naturally and through building mental tools and habits. There are many cases like yours I am sure, but unfortunately there are so many cases of undiagnosed ADHD where kids grow up to be adults, never knowing why they are different and never getting any help to deal with their divergence in a rigid and inflexible world.

                              Thomas . However, the concept of "being all in your head" in English meaning that it is imagined not biological is what I am disagreeing with.

                              It's not like that in every case, I don't want to be misunderstood, but unfortunately mental illnesses are used almost inflationarily nowadays, so I'm cautious.

                                  Angelina I agree that the term "mental illness" is way over used these days. There is a Neuro-Divergence for sure and those with ADHD notice this more than most people can understand. But it is the majority of societies and the way that people have been programmed in our world which is the real problem. It has put kids in a system which amplifies their differences and makes them into traumas instead of giving everyone the tools they need to know who they are and find the best version of themselves, emotionally and mentally, instead of convincing them that they need to try to be someone else.

                                      Thomas It has put kids in a system which amplifies their differences

                                      that's interesting, i would rather say that the problem is that our children are all being made the same and their individuality is not being promoted, which leads to psychological problems.

                                          [Edited / Update: Didn't realize Thomas had already answered, when I wrote the post at hand.]

                                          Maybe the term referred to differences in the sense of having differences among themselves, like problems to express themselves truly or difficulties to get along when people of more or less apparent "neurotypes" (or divergence, as Thomas put it) are involved?

                                          Yet, I don't want to answer instead of Thomas. I only want to confirm a personal impression, that there is an interplay between individual people and this (sometimes strange and hard to get) "society" and their respective influences. Unfortunately and still far too often, im my opinion, that societal influence puts a lot of pressure on the individual - instead of encouraging to learn about each others perceptions and needs, first.

                                          Now I'm definitely not saying that societies should tolerate every individual oddity. For from it. Yet it is far more easier to find dealings to get along with each other, when you learn the real background why someone acts and reacts their way. (And often, one has to find out for oneself as well, first. Besides, that certain foundations in our brains will probably stay hidden or at least unconscious forever… To weal or woe.)

                                          It's a tragedy that IMHO many many people (including myself) -- perhaps because of that general "mood of pressure", feelings of being out of time, having to accomplish too many tasks whose necessity is sometimes completely questionable in too less time etc. or even fighting for bare existence -- feel even less compassionate, even less able to investigate those feelings (incl. our own), less able to learn about each other, and deal with our respective characteristics, ask for specific steps that might make our living together easier and so on.

                                          It takes effort, sometimes seems like a waste of time to get really in touch with one another. And sometimes our affected minds just don't make it. It would be so valuable, still.

                                          Thomas

                                          Our answers crossed (didn't notice you already posted, while typing).

                                            Thomas

                                            Yet, my assumption that it's two sides of the same coin, was not too wrong, apparently.

                                              4 months later

                                              I'm on the neurodiverse spectrum, diagnosed ASD and may possibly be diagnosed for ADHD spectrum in the future because it would explains other issues I have that aren't necessarily ASD related (e.g. handwriting) but I do have other tendancies like mild OCD.

                                              Thomas Vaccinated kids are 3 times more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD... it doesn't cause it just makes the symptoms worse.

                                              I'm pretty sure that's just generalisation, many factors could take into play and one of the suggested hypothesis is the age in which birth is given - as like human DNA reproduction inevitably resulting in DNA strand trimming and potentially causing problems such as cancer late in life, reproductive systems have an expiry date of sorts.

                                              People around me knew what ADHD/ASD were but only after the internet popularised/dramatised the terms. It's supposed to be the teacher's job apparently to highlight key problems in child development, and clearly in my case, the traits were there but nobody knew about neurodiversity, it's kinda like how 20 years ago almost nobody outside closely nit circles cared about LBGT rights. ASD was alternatively called asperger's, named after a nazi scientist.

                                              Unfortunately, much of the world's knowledge comes from atrocities and was only popularised after internet became more mainstream, and even still until I got diagnosed, my parents through ASD = retardation (low IQ) with mild specialisation. Which in a way, isn't too far off the more accepted definition in that ASD means lower ability in socialising, but is otherwise often compensated by higher ability in other areas, which is why to some I sound like a genius online but in actuality i'm outcasted and a bit of a blunt "dickhead" when it comes to real life interactions.

                                              It's a shame I got diagnosed way too late for development intervention to be a viable option, my career and life has already been royally fked, so I just gotta live with what I can without the social support of networks.

                                              But really it's quite a psychological problem for me because I "Think too much, but don't do enough"; and in some ways I also "Work harder, but not smarter"

                                                  zbovka Thanks for sharing. Being diagnosed as an adult is hard and it is harder to change the way you work or think as you get older and the support for adults is not even close to what is there for kids sadly.

                                                  The comment about 3 times increase in ASD and ADHD in vaccinated kids came from one of the only studies which included unvaccinated kids. There are very very few kids who have never been vaccinated and so the study was a very good comparison of the effects of vaccination. They included respiratory issues, delayed learning etc in and they were all increased in the vaccinated group. It doesn't cause ADHD or ASD but it can bring it out if there are genetic susceptibility. There are a significant number of kids who developed ASD symptoms after vaccination who after chelation therapy became "normal".

                                                      zbovka It's a shame I got diagnosed way too late for development intervention to be a viable option, my career and life has already been royally fked, so I just gotta live with what I can without the social support of networks.

                                                      You have a life and career, if you try you can have a support network too

                                                        kat_anders We know of several personally and those in the anti-vaxx movement have given many reports over the years which I have seen (most were only anti-vaxx after their kids had major reactions to the vaccines). Also it is commonly known in alternative medicine circles, when they get vaccine injured the standard medicine can do nothing for them and they turn to naturopaths to get help.