Why do you think masturbation is wrong?

Ines

Joh
It is a paraphilia, but sometimes is linked with psychiatric diseases, as psycopathy.
Then, it is a problem.

Angelina

Avery she now suggests she is going to expose her daughter to the same

no, that's just not true, i wpuldn't suggest my daughter to wear a belt, i would never do that, i'm just saying that i wouldn't forbid her to either

Avery It is the father that must not cross the boundary.

yes, my father crossed a line because he (psychologically) forced me to do it, but that doesn't apply to my later children)

Andrew If you felt offended by my reasoning, I am very sorry.

I don't feel attacked, I find it interesting. I don't agree with that, but I would be interested to know why some users think that

a_father You want to tell your daughter, you were abused by your father? This may distroy the relationship between your (future) daughter and her grandpa. She may be scared of him afterwards. Better you wait till she is an adult. Othewise she may fear having to wear a chastity belt, too.

not even that. I try to explain it. There will come an age when my (hypothetical) daughter will begin to develop her sexuality. Of course she is allowed to masturbate and hopefully she will find a nice partner with whom she will have her first sex. I just want to show her and describe objectively how it was for me and why it was like that and what advantages and disadvantages it brought. Of course I don't want to influence you, but it should be possible to talk about it

a_father

Angelina I just want to show her and describe objectively how it was for me

Don't do that. You can't imagine how weired this would be for her. You live in an absolut parallel world now. When you are free for a while an look back you'll understand. Perhapse you even want to talk with the athorities about what happened to you.
For you I hope your girfriend is the right partner for life and the marriage is not driven be the abuse of your father. You had no chance to develop your sexuality in a normal way. I hope you don't become the victom of your father for a second time.

Angelina

a_father You can't imagine how weired this would be for her.

i can do that, i found it totally strange myself when i found out about it, that it existed. for me it was something from the middle ages or a toy. i don't want to harm my daughter, but the day will come when she might ask what my sex life was like in my teens or young adulthood and i would like to be honest in such an important conversation.

Avery

a_father Don't do that. You can't imagine how weird this would be for her. You live in an absolute parallel world now. When you are free for a while and look back you'll understand. Perhaps you even want to talk with the authorities about what happened to you.
For you I hope your girlfriend is the right partner for life and the marriage is not driven by the abuse of your father. You had no chance to develop your sexuality in a normal way. I hope you don't become the victim of your father for a second time.

If there are nominations for "post of the year" this one gets my vote. Lots of wisdom and good advice in there. Excellent.

curious

a_father
I would be more careful to apply your views and generalise everything.
Take corporal punishment as an example. 100 years ago, children got routinely spanked for misbehaving, not only at home but also in school.
Today we consider that inappropriate, but it was completely normal to our grandparents.
And surprise, surprise, most of our grandparents actually did not feel like 'victims of physical abuse' or were emotionally traumatised for life.

In other words:
There are many ways to bring up children. And to so
me people chastity is part of how they do that. What is wrong in your views might be desirable in someone else's view.
Constantly harping about how wrong everyone is who is not in line with what you consider right is not a good thing. Angelina for example has expressed on multiple occasions that while she does not like to wear the belt, she ultimately is accepting her father's authority in that matter. And based on her rather self conscious and intelligent way to communicate, I doubt that she will be temotionally raumatised or needing psychological treatment from having been kept in chastity until her wedding.

Andrew

a_father Don't do that. You can't imagine how weired this would be for her. You live in an absolut parallel world now. When you are free for a while an look back you'll understand. Perhapse you even want to talk with the athorities about what happened to you.

It seems to me that you are slightly demonizing the chastity belt. It is one thing to encourage girl to wear a chastity belt, and quite another to talk about it, show it, or even allow it to be tried on.

a_father Otherwise we would be in the situation in Rome 50BC. The 'pater familias' had the absolut power. He could punish, exclude family members, even kill family members.

Respect for referring to Roman law 😀

Angelina i don't want to harm my daughter, but the day will come when she might ask what my sex life was like in my teens or young adulthood and i would like to be honest in such an important conversation.

Reasonable approach.

Avery

curious harping about how wrong everyone is who is not in line with what you consider right is not a good thing.

Stop doing it then.

Joh

curious And surprise, surprise, most of our grandparents actually did not feel like 'victims of physical abuse' or were emotionally traumatised for life.

It was shown that children who were beaten up later beat up their own children. Even if there is no obvious trauma, it leaves deep traces. For this reason, it is now forbidden by law in Germany. § 1631 BGB, § 225 StBG

Angelina

curious I doubt that she will be temotionally raumatised or needing psychological treatment from having been kept in chastity until her wedding.

I think so too, I think I will be able to have a completely normal marriage, at least I don't see myself in a clinic in 5 years, but happy in bed with my wife. 🙂

Rina Personally I won't let my daughter, if I have any in future, to wear a chastity belt even if she asks me for one,

Rina And some even wants to force their daughters to wear a belt despite being an involuntarily wearer at first time

name me one case here, i don't know anyone from the involuntary who wants to force their daughter into a chastity belt. besides, there is a lot of space between forcing and forbidding to wear a belt.

a_father

curious You know, it is abuse, what her father did, right? I don't like the way you put that into perspective. This has nothing to do with rules in a family, which may be different for different families. This is the reason, why laws exist. Family rules can only exist within the confines of the law
Otherwise we would be in the situation in Rome 50BC. The 'pater familias' had the absolut power. He could punish, exclude family members, even kill family members.
This power is limited by law in the meantime. And that's great.
You may have noticed that I am only representing the legal situation here. So I'm not entirely alone with my opinion.

Rina

a_father the current weares would suggest their future daughters to wear a chastity belt

And some even wants to force their daughters to wear a belt despite being an involuntarily wearer at first time, according to poll here. This kind of shows negative cycles...

Personally I won't let my daughter, if I have any in future, to wear a chastity belt even if she asks me for one, until she becomes an adult and either decide that with her partner or she wants it for herself. I won't become a keyholder of my daughter, period.

Sara2001

curious Actually, both masochism and sadism are still part of medical diagnostic standards, but today there is one critical element that must be present for this diagnosis to actually apply: the person must feel that he/she is actually suffering from having these feelings. If you have either masochistic or sadistic urges but are completely fine with that, the medical diagnosis criteria are not met.

My husband is not a sadist, I am not a masochist. Non of us is enjoying discipline. We enjoy hierarchy and structure. Discipline is a tool, not a purpose.

Rina

Angelina there is a lot of space between forcing and forbidding to wear a belt.

It's more like I won't become keyholder of my future daughter's (if I have any) chastity belt.

Angelina

Rina It's more like I won't become keyholder of my future daughter's (if I have any) chastity belt.

completely ok, no one will force you to 🙂

curious For that reason there is no point discussing legal aspects as they vary by country.

that's true, but i can't think of any western country where it's legal, but you're also right, i don't know of any specific cases where a judge has actually ruled on it.

Ines

a_father You may have noticed that I am only representing the legal situation here. So I'm not entirely alone with my opinion.

False.
Just because you do not share the dynamics of other people's lives, does not mean you do not abide by the law or defend it.
I think it is pretty clear lately that the conversations here need to stick to the latter.

curious

a_father You may have noticed that I am only representing the legal situation here.

This forum is international. For that reason there is no point discussing legal aspects as they vary by country. Besides, I am no lawyer and I do not recall ever having read about a legal case where the decision to use a CB for parenting and protection was actually declared I,, egal. But please feel free to provide the case file number, I am more than happy to read up on that.
Unless you can provide such, I will assume you just have your own interpretation of what is legally ok in your country just as other people have their interpretation.

curious

Angelina but i can't think of any western country where it's legal,

Considering how conservative the red states in the US have become, banning all abortions.....
I think especially in those states you actually might have a pretty good chance CB will be legally accepted for strict parental control and raisi g children according to conservative values.
But unless some case gets in front of a judge, that's just speculation.

Angelina

curious

I think the case would end up in court, as would the new anti-abortion laws. At the end of the day, that's certainly difficult for the court because it would set a precedent

curious

Angelina
Yes. But my point is, that it is probably not possible to predict which way the courts would rule. Hence claiming that using a belt on children is per se illegal seems to me not convincing.

Angelina

Andrew It seems to me that you are slightly demonizing the chastity belt. It is one thing to encourage girl to wear a chastity belt, and quite another to talk about it, show it, or even allow it to be tried on.

thank you, that is the only thing i am trying to explain 🙂

curious Hence claiming that using a belt on children is per se illegal

I think it is at least illegal if it happens against the will of the child because children also have a right to develop freely sexually.

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