Andrew
Nobody on this forum is actually a completely Involuntary wearer by that definition.
All have some Form of motivation to continue in the belt, be it financial or emotional motivations.
But nobody here (as far as I have read) has been physically forced to wear the belt. So we can stop complaining about abuse and Involuntary belting even in the more extreme cases, right?

And no, her age might explain her judgemental and abrupt speech, it does not make it appropriate. It simply indicates that she did not have the necessary sophistication and education how to behave herself appropriately. While I often disagree with @Ines and her English isn't the best either, she actually shows a way more respectful manner in the way she writes.
But then, maybe the whole dispute how a chastity belt is approached is actually an issue that is connected to social classes? Higher classes tend to be more conservative, value certain behaviour much higher than lower classes and part of that conservative value system is stricter focus on serious chastity, which of course people from lower classes see as bad and want to fight, because it against their egalitarian views?

      curious completely Involuntary wearer by that definition.

      In fact, this was widely discussed some years ago. And I agree with that.
      In general, I think that girls that talk about strictly forced belting, are trolls.

      curious So we can stop complaining about abuse and Involuntary belting even in the more extreme cases, right?

      No, extreme cases are not welcome here, I can accept a bit of group pressure, or encourage of belting, but emotional payback or physical pressure is unacceptable.

            Ines
            I was referring to those cases that describe themselves as Involuntary wearers where, when you look at it more closely, the wearer is just not willing to face the consequences that would come to evade the rules the keyholder has set.
            @Angelina would not have the rather comfortable life for a student, having her own car etc. @Christine would have had to face a life without financial support from her mother to which - being an adult - she was not entitled.
            And in your family it is a way of tradition and peer pressure. But none of that is actually Involuntary in the strict interpretation of the word, because there is always a way not to wear the belt, if you are prepared to accept the consequences.

            • Kaja replied to this.

                curious Nobody on this forum is actually a completely Involuntary wearer by that definition.
                All have some Form of motivation to continue in the belt, be it financial or emotional motivations.
                But nobody here (as far as I have read) has been physically forced to wear the belt. So we can stop complaining about abuse and Involuntary belting even in the more extreme cases, right?

                Emotional and financial issues can create real compulsion and, depending on the situation, may be enough to speak of involuntary wearing of a chastity belt. What I meant, however, was situations related to contracts (which you have repeatedly referred to), which do not have to have any serious element of coercion.

                curious she did not have the necessary sophistication and education how to behave herself appropriately

                Not everyone has the opportunity to receive such an education. Undoubtedly, she should work on her discussion and argumentation skills.

                curious But then, maybe the whole dispute how a chastity belt is approached is actually an issue that is connected to social classes? Higher classes tend to be more conservative, value certain behaviour much higher than lower classes and part of that conservative value system is stricter focus on serious chastity, which of course people from lower classes see as bad and want to fight, because it against their egalitarian views?

                Interesting consideration, but it seems to me that chastity belts are such a niche issue that it is difficult to formulate more general conclusions from the sociological point of view. I also have doubts about the generalization that the upper classes are more conservative than the lower ones. Looking at the situation in the countries of Central and Eastern Europe, I would say that it is exactly the opposite.

                        Andrew Interesting consideration, but it seems to me that chastity belts are such a niche issue that it is difficult to formulate more general conclusions from the sociological point of view. I also have doubts about the generalization that the upper classes are more conservative than the lower ones. Looking at the situation in the countries of Central and Eastern Europe, I would say that it is exactly the opposite.

                        I agree that this is just a theory that came to my mind and is unlikely to be proven either way considering the lack of available data.
                        But when you look at how for example @Angelina or @Ines express their opinions who obviously have parents that are strongly focused on chastity as a value and in both cases obviously from families where higher education is considered important and compare that to Kaja, the difference is striking.

                        Andrew Not everyone has the opportunity to receive such an education. Undoubtedly, she should work on her discussion and argumentation skills.

                        True. But there is a difference to realise you have a lot to improve in this area and actually make an effort to get to a higher level versus those who loudly claim that their perspective is the only acceptable one and try to insult and bully everyone who is of different opinion. I have often found the second in people from so called "lower classes", who - instead of attempting in self-improvement - rather engage in fighting anything and everyone who is more sophisticated.
                        This is actually an issue that I have observed in many societies, across national borders.

                            curious This is stupid and dangerous! You cant mean it serious.

                            For example - rape is every sexual contact without permision (it include situation that you are drunk and you cant say yes or not) and not only when somebody tie you, use weapon and violence.

                                Kaja
                                Again your language is insulting. Not everything you do not agree is stupid.
                                If your father tells you: Either you wear a chastity belt or you get reduced to the minimum financial support he is required to provide to you by law, that is his right to do.
                                And it is your right to either accept the belt or make do with whatever the law in your country does entitle you to as support. But anything your father provides on top of what is required by law is a matter of negotiation between you and him. That has nothing to do with rape or any form of violence, it is simply a matter of your preferences and negotating between adults.
                                If you want your freedom, well, then have your freedom but with minimal financial support and as adults usually have to do - show how you can support yourself and be yourself responsible for your own life. And if you want to have more financial support, that is a matter of what is negotiated. If being in a chastity belt is the deal that is offered, it is up to you to take it or leave it.
                                I know that would not be nice and even ethically questionable behaviour, but it is not illegal to demand you wear a chastity belt in return for more financial support.

                                  curious her English isn't the best either

                                  And? This is quite gratuitous...
                                  🤷🏻‍♀️

                                      Ines
                                      No offence intended. I simply wanted to make the point that @Kaja's rudeness cannot be explained away by blaming limited language skills.

                                      • Ines replied to this.

                                          Andrew Emotional and financial issues can create real compulsion and, depending on the situation, may be enough to speak of involuntary wearing of a chastity belt.

                                          Well, I have always said that everything depends on the starting point.
                                          It is obvious that what is desirable is a pure acceptance of the belt for personal ethics, but I am not absolutely against "bribery" either.
                                          I say this because especially here I have seen bribery work with girls who were not basically reluctant to wear a chastity belt, but sometimes, in order to accept a keyholder's condition, the keyholder must add "some bonus".
                                          Okay, it is not perfect, but I have seen that with my cousins, and it certainly does not tarnish the voluntary use.
                                          Regarding peer pressure, well again, if in a family all the girls use it because they think it is the right thing to do, it is logical that they reveal a little bit if some other girl does not use it, or that they make her see that it is the right thing to do. Now, there were girls here in other times who were told that if they did not wear a belt, the family would be destroyed because she would be rejected. These are very different things.

                                          Andrew are such a niche issue that it is difficult to formulate more general conclusions from the sociological point of view.

                                          I tend to think that in upper classes the use is higher, and I believe and have said that sometime here years ago, in certain circles its use may be common, and I am talking about social elites well beyond the upper or affluent class that most of us girls here move in, and what @Barbara has written here and what I have talked to her about, does nothing but convince me more of that.
                                          In certain more typically conservative circles they will worry about their daughters behaving properly just as they will not tolerate a son not walking a girl home or not holding the door for her or yielding to her. It is clear that in large social circles these rules, which for me are basic in my environment, are not followed.

                                                Christine I didn't do anything I deserved a chastity belt for.

                                                that's right, it was your mother's values, but if it's not your values, you can't really say that it's important to you that your mother can't have sex, you just want her to feel her own medicine

                                                I would just like to comment briefly on the rest of the discussion. I call myself involuntary for 2 reasons. Reason 1: I cannot say no without negative consequences. Reason 2: I don't think chastity is good for me.
                                                I don't want to comment on anything else because the discussion will divide the forum. Please be nice 🙂

                                                    curious No offence intended

                                                    Understood.
                                                    No problem, then.

                                                      Ines but I am not absolutely against "bribery" either

                                                      I find that acceptable too.

                                                      Ines Regarding peer pressure

                                                      I consider the pressure you describe to be acceptable. It does not exhaust the signs of violence.

                                                      Ines there were girls here in other times who were told that if they did not wear a belt, the family would be destroyed because she would be rejected

                                                      This is clearly psychological abuse.

                                                      Ines I tend to think that in upper classes the use is higher

                                                      These guesses are quite logical, but not supported by any evidence.

                                                      Ines In certain more typically conservative circles they will worry about their daughters behaving properly

                                                      Generally, the more conservative the circles, the higher the value of virginity, although not always. I know something about it from my own experience 😉

                                                                  Andrew I consider the pressure you describe to be acceptable. It does not exhaust the signs of violence.

                                                                  Probably it is fundamental in order to build a tradition.

                                                                  Andrew This is clearly psychological abuse.

                                                                  I do not have doubt about it.

                                                                  Andrew These guesses are quite logical, but not supported by any evidence.

                                                                  Well, South American and European societies are different in many ways, but I think that after talking to her, many things that @Barbara says can be extrapolated... or at least interpolate.

                                                                        Angelina well, through @Ines and her family you already knew about the belt, why did you wait so long?

                                                                        Well, I thought it was impossible for it to work.
                                                                        I imagined it as something complicated and that it would not work.
                                                                        It wasn't until @Raquel proposed that she use the belt and I saw how even with the somewhat random rules that my wife put on it the belt worked, that I realized my mistake.

                                                                            Rafael Well, I thought it was impossible for it to work.

                                                                            Would you mind to clarify the situation with your older daughter?

                                                                                Andrew These guesses are quite logical, but not supported by any evidence.

                                                                                i also believe that the use of chastity belts is higher in upper social classes, if only because a custom-made belt is not cheap and many poorer families could not afford it

                                                                                Rafael Well, I thought it was impossible for it to work.

                                                                                understandable, but if you liked the basic idea, you could have gotten tips from @Ines and her family on how to make it work. well, the main thing is that you're happy with the situation now, all of you.

                                                                                      Jonas But your aunt is wise, as she clearly doesn't want to fight with one of you either.

                                                                                      But she wants me to wear a belt too.

                                                                                      Jonas Do you think your mom is starting to see how hard chastity can be?

                                                                                      She is starting to see that her belt prevent what it's supposed to.

                                                                                      Jonas So would you wear your belt in order to keep the peace?

                                                                                      I don't think so.

                                                                                      curious The question now is: Do you think chastity and purity is a value and worthy goal?
                                                                                      Or are you in the 'free sex and masturbation whenever I want' group?

                                                                                      First, but I don't need a chastity belt.

                                                                                      Angelina you can't really say that it's important to you that your mother can't have sex

                                                                                      Well, it was not important before, but she's convinced me.

                                                                                      Angelina you just want her to feel her own medicine

                                                                                      I wouldn't call it this way, she just needs a chastity belt.