maintenance punishment in male led relations?

Joh

Avery something resembling an equal power relationship.

What do you mean with this?

Avery

Joh What do you mean with this?

Wow. That's all I can say. It cannot be a parent and a child, a boss and an employee, a coach and an athlete, a clergyman and an ordinary church member, something like that. In simpler terms, both people must be free to walk away.

Joh

Avery In simpler terms, both people must be free to walk away.

This I can understand and agree.
The other parts I do not understand. Maybe because English is not my mother language.
@Sara2001
Thanks for the explanation. I see the difference now.

Sara2001

Avery here where some person said their punishment was meant to be hard enough to still hurt the next day. I think we all can agree that's wrong.

No. We can not. I don't enjoy it when it's painful for several days, but it definitely leads to the desired results. It's very usual in this kind of relationship that a real punishment hurt for days.

Pieter_Cuck I totally agree with you a punishment is not good if you still feel it the next day. The punishment must be bearable.

I think it differs from relationship to relationship. My punishments always hurt more than a day and I know many others (out of my family) where it is the same. A punishment needs to hurt, otherwise we wouldn't work hard enough to avoid it.

Sin Consent is key. Otherwise it's abuse. No means no.

I agree, but consense that one partner is in charge and the other one is submitting is consense. This kind of relationship needs trust and a lot of effort from both partners. I can only submit to my boyfriend and follow his rules and orders because I trust him and can see and feel that my long term happiness and my long term goals are his top priority. I could never submit to someone who doesn't care for my needs as much as I care for his.

Joh Sorry, I don't get it what you want to point out.

When I get my maintenance discipline, it's not a punishment, because I haven't done anything wrong. That's a very important difference for me. For maintenance we have a long talk about our rules and how I feel with them and things like that before the spanking. It's about fine tuning the relationship and better understanding of eachother. It's about showing that we both still want this kind of relationship and that we still care for eachother. For punishment it's completely different. We have a lesson where we talk about a specific incident and I feel guilty. After the punishment I feel free and the incident is COMPLETELY solved between us. These things can't be mixed. At least this wouldn't feel correct in my relationship. Every discipline has a different goal and never just happens to administer pain.

Avery If the they are adults and in something resembling an equal power relationship.

Of course it can only be consensual between adults and from how I read it Joh sees it the same way, but I don't understand the second half of your sentence, too. I don't live in an equal power relationship and I don't want to live in an equal power relationship. I am happy to live in a male led relationship and that he has far more power then I have. Equal power is not what I want or what I need. What I want and need is the feeling that I as a person have the same value and that my wishes, goals and needs are covered in our relationship as well as his. As long as this is given, I don't need power.

Pieter_Cuck

Sara2001

my corporal punishment hurts too, but not for days. I feel the mental punishments longer. Seeing her with her Bull hurts more than the corporal punishment.

Avery

Sara2001 It's very usual in this kind of relationship that a real punishment hurt for days.

No it isn't. You need to read more, or maybe less, if it's internet stuff.

Sara2001 I don't understand the second half of your sentence, too. I don't live in an equal power relationship and I don't want to live in an equal power relationship. I am happy to live in a male led relationship and that he has far more power then I have. Equal power is not what I want or what I need. What I want and need is the feeling that I as a person have the same value and that my wishes, goals and needs are covered in our relationship as well as his. As long as this is given, I don't need power.

As I said, you need to read more, or understand it. You have chosen this type of relationship. That's the key. You can choose. Can you really not understand there are people who can't? No, maybe not.

Angelina

Sara2001 When I get my maintenance discipline, it's not a punishment, because I haven't done anything wrong.

I agree and since we have already covered this topic in detail in another thread I will ask @Laura to merge it.

I myself never believe in physical punishment, but after @Sara2001 has written a lot of sensible things about it, I would also say that maintenance and punishment are two different things. a punishment is only given to someone who has done something wrong, a maintenance is part of this relationship model.

Sara2001

Joh This I can understand and agree.

Of course there must always be a way to end this relationship from both sides. It has to be consensual. But even more important is that you have a system in your relationship that ensures that non of you wants to end the relationship and that's where maintenance sessions are a very helpful tool.

Avery

Joh Maybe because English is not my mother language.

I guess so, because it's just a list of inherently unequal power relationships.

Megan

Diana_V what is your opinion of maintenance punishment
In front of? or Against?

NO! There is no need at all.

Sara2001

Avery No it isn't. You need to read more, or maybe less, if it's internet stuff.

What is your source. My sources are several couples I really know in real life, including my own relationship. A punishment that I don't feel anymore after a few hours has almost no long term effect and only lead to more punishments. This is something that couples practice who do this for their sexual entertainment, not to organise their relationship. At least that's my experience.

Avery As I said, you need to read more, or understand it. You have chosen this type of relationship. That's the key. You can choose. Can you really not understand there are people who can't? No, maybe not.

I always say that living this lifestyle must be consensual, I said it directly and clear dozens of times. Nobody should ever be forced in this kind of relationship. But consensual and equal rights is something completely different. I am not the one who obviously doesn't understand this lifestyle.

Angelina maintenance and punishment are two different things

Yes, most people would are not in touch with this lifestyle just see the physical aspects but the mental/psychological aspects are much, much more important and they are completely different.

youdontknowme Then what word would you use to describe something unpleasant that is inflicted onto a person because it is unpleasant?

A sado maso sex game. Abuse if it's not consent.

youdontknowme I feel we need some clearer vocabulary to describe those disciplinary maintenance...

There is a very clear vocabulary used in the taken in hand/domestic discipline community.

What is most important. In these lifestyles, physical discipline is always given for a reason. Mainly maintenance (of the relationship), punishment and reminder (not as usual as the other two). They normally never come just on it's own but are always embedded in a kind of "session" including a lot of talking and understanding eachother and eachothers point of view.

Anything else is just abuse or a sexual fetishism.

youdontknowme But if anyone can come up with a better word for that, I am all ears.

Discipline.

Joh

Angelina a punishment is only given to someone who has done something wrong, a maintenance is part of this relationship model.

This gets to the point. 👍️

youdontknowme

Angelina a punishment is only given to someone who has done something wrong

Then what word would you use to describe something unpleasant that is inflicted onto a person because it is unpleasant?

I feel we need some clearer vocabulary to describe those disciplinary maintenance... treatments. When I hear maintenance, my associations are things that the wearer would want for themselves even if they are not into being disciplined. Stuff like cleaning the gear they wear, hygiene and grooming, checking for signs of potential health issues, that sort of stuff.

Personally, I use the term punishment to describe hurting people for a justifiable cause, not necessarily to refer exclusively to penalties in response to misbehavior. But if anyone can come up with a better word for that, I am all ears.

Angelina

youdontknowme Personally, I use the term punishment to describe hurting people for a justifiable cause, not necessarily to refer exclusively to penalties in response to misbehavior. But if anyone can come up with a better word for that, I am all ears.

yes, i see it a bit differently and as i said i am not an expert in this topic, but for me a punishment is always a reaction to a wrong behaviour. if you have not done anything wrong you cannot be punished for anything.

Sara2001 Yes, most people would are not in touch with this lifestyle just see the physical aspects but the mental/psychological aspects are much, much more important and they are completely different.

I agree with you, but you have explained it well several times here in the forum so that everyone can understand it. 🙂

Sara2001 Yes and another key is that you have a way in your relationship to change your mind. I have agreed to a 6 months waiting period if I ever change my mind about this lifestyle. If I want to continue the relationship with him but not the lifestyle, Everything stays as it is and if I still have the same opinion after 6 months, we switch to equal rights.

i think this way is very good and it is good that you always have an "exit switch", i think you have said everything that is important. i also had my doubts at the beginning, but some people will understand what you mean after a while, like me, and others won't.

youdontknowme

Sara2001 Discipline

I can live with that. It still has an ambiguous meaning between "obedience and self-control" and "the means to achieve such obedience", but that ambiguity is common in regular language as well and not limited to a particular community's jargon.

Sara2001 A sado maso sex game. Abuse if it's not consent.

Excuse me for being unclear with my wording. I meant measures where the unpleasant part is necessary to achieve an objective, not necessarily where it is the objective. I would imagine a working discipline measure is not always the most enjoyable experience, even if the outcome is something you are happy with.

Avery

Sara2001 But consensual and equal rights is something completely different. I am not the one who obviously doesn't understand this lifestyle.

OK. So you have consented to enter into a relationship where you do not have equal power. I understand that kind of relationship.

And I agree with whoever said you have made informative points in the old 35-maintenance-and-punishment thread.

But right alongside your stuff are postings where young people are in relationships where they have no choice in whether they participate and that's what sets me off.

I'm done. Have the last word if you want to bother.

Sara2001

youdontknowme Excuse me for being unclear with my wording. I meant measures where the unpleasant part is necessary to achieve an objective, not necessarily where it is the objective.

We don't use it. I think it is called educational spankings. If I understand you correctly.

Avery OK. So you have consented to enter into a relationship where you do not have equal power. I understand that kind of relationship.

Yes and everything without consent is wrong and abusive.

Avery But right alongside your stuff are postings where young people are in relationships where they have no choice in whether they participate and that's what sets me off.

I was not forced in this relationship, my parents forced me to see him once, but said at the very beginning that they will not force me in a relationship with him and if I don't like him, there would have be no need to ever see him again. Luckily it ended in a very happy and consensual relationship.

youdontknowme The key is that you had equapl power before you chose this relationship, so you could freely choose whether to give consent. That makes a huge difference.

Yes and another key is that you have a way in your relationship to change your mind. I have agreed to a 6 months waiting period if I ever change my mind about this lifestyle. If I want to continue the relationship with him but not the lifestyle, Everything stays as it is and if I still have the same opinion after 6 months, we switch to equal rights.

youdontknowme

Avery OK. So you have consented to enter into a relationship where you do not have equal power.

The key is that you had equapl power before you chose this relationship, so you could freely choose whether to give consent. That makes a huge difference.

Joh

Avery
I understand you view but you are longer at the forum that you know the discussion is often going sidewise.
If I consider the intro question @Sara2001 posting fit in nicely. So I have little problem why you react so harsh.

Avery

youdontknowme The key is that you had equal power before you chose this relationship, so you could freely choose whether to give consent. That makes a huge difference.

I wish I had said this so clearly.

Avery

Joh So I have little problem why you react so harsh.

Think I was out of line. Sorry.

Saintprudence

Diana_V Regardless of what gender of the leader, maintenance punishment is appropriate if agreed upon by both sides. I do agree that girls seem to need it more, but it doesn’t matter if it’s a male-led relationship.

Saintprudence

sun

That’s part of the trade-off of leading the marriage, though. You lift the burden of decision-making from the other, and it’s often tiring. Being in charge is a responsibility, not just for fun.

« Previous Page Next Page »