Sin
It is Church, not me!
I was talking about doctrine, @Sin , not about my opinion.

Maximus

I insist, @Max9 , made a statement about Church Doctrine that it was not true. And I simply said that non-procreative (?) sex is always sin for the Church.
I said somewhere in last days, that I am Catholic but not idiot, and I am sure that God has another bigger worries.

Avery If one has promised to be obedient to one's husband does this not pose a dilemma?

No, since he asks you to make a sin. Similar if he asks kill a person.

          it's true, I found you already said something in the other "less strict" way.. but coming here and reading the latest messages...

          Ines I am Catholic, but I am not a lamb, I am sure that God does not care if I ,(sorry I do not talk this way usually), kneel in front of my man as symbol of my love... You understand me...

          I don't support all the arbitrary rules of church which went outdated, but if the rules are there.. why somes are not valid and others yes? instead of just ignore all the rules which are outdated?
          I was talking about something similar with a very religious person, as time passed and some things before were a sin, and later not.. who says something still classified as sin/inappropriate should or will change to appropriate?

          • Ines replied to this.

              Ines Church Doctrine

              Church doctrines are just interpretations of the will of god. They have often contradicted themlselves over time when a new pope got electred who had slightly different views.

              That's why my 5 variatons for justifications are something you can think about.

                  Thank you for the compliment. I studied church history for one of my tests in my university. That study is... Well... Interesting to say the least.

                    Maximus I was talking about something similar with a very religious person, as time passed and some things before were a sin, and later not.. who says something still classified as sin/inappropriate should or will change to appropriate?

                    I am religious, but not very religious, I am not a fundamentalist, and I can understand that something will change, and, even, something have changed.
                    Obviously "love the neighbor as yourself" will not change, but some positions about sex, of course will change.

                    Maximus who says something still classified as sin/inappropriate should or will change to appropriate?

                    As I said, they will change.

                    And, obviously all of us are weak, and we make sins everyday, and that does not make us less person and bad Christian. We have to recognize it and try to be better. I do not follow all precepts, some of them because I am weak or lazy (I do not go to the Church every holy day for example) and another because I think that some precepts are sons of their time, and simply they are not still changed.
                    For example, the other day I read that with the law in the hand, is legal, in York, to kill a Scottish man if he has a bow. .. Obviously is a norm not very well suited to current times...

                          Max9

                          Objection!

                          First of all because your position are all church doctrines and not based on "the word of God", since he never talked so specifically about marriage and single parents.
                          And even if, word of God is something selected by church doctrine even before a single soul could reach the Bible. So there is no way that someone who lves today could reach the original word.

                          Second, and most crucial, because you presented us four cases and not five as you say now!

                          • Max9 replied to this.

                              Avery It's there to help guys keep an accurate count of how many virgins they've deflowered.

                              I never figured out why should deflowering be important.

                              I think from ancient time coming the husband needed to know from whom the child is. So the introduced this kind of condition that a women should be virgin when she marries. With the time this was still extended and taken over by the Christian faith communities around the supremacy of the man to guarantee.
                              There is no documentation from the time of Jesus nor did he ever write anything down. That was written by the apostles later. Everything from memory with interpretations. Over the millennia it was changed, interpreted, adapted to the situation, etc.. What we have today is certainly not what was said then or what happened.

                              Avery Then I do what I think he would have wanted me to do, which is treat people decently.

                              That's a good motto. I can fully support it and leave the rest out of religion.

                                    I'll take spirituality over religion any day. ;-)

                                    • Max9 replied to this.

                                      Joh

                                      Joh I never figured out why should deflowering be important.

                                      I'm sure your historical interpretation is correct. Anecdotally, when I was in high school certainly, and even now that I'm in university, being the first to screw a girl is an ego thing, an affirmation of the guy's charm or studliness. He was able to get the girl to do something with him she had declined to do with anyone else. But I'm sure you are right, before reliable birth control guys had to be sure the child was theirs, so virginity before marriage was very important.

                                      • Joh replied to this.

                                            Avery But I'm sure you are right, before reliable birth control guys had to be sure the child was theirs, so virginity before marriage was very important.

                                            So it is an anachronism what has no sense nowadays.

                                                Joh

                                                Joh So it is an anachronism what has no sense nowadays.

                                                Not to people who scrupulously follow the teachings of many religions and feel that (virginity 'til marriage) is the way people should live their lives. It's a risk I wouldn't take but I respect the right of people to do it.

                                                • Joh replied to this.

                                                      Avery Not to people who scrupulously follow the teachings of many religions and feel that (virginity 'til marriage) is the way people should live their lives. It's a risk I wouldn't take but I respect the right of people to do it.

                                                      Every adult can decide for himself what he thinks is right or wrong. Nevertheless, everyone should inform themselves in detail and only then make their decision. Apart from that, there is again a big difference between the Christian church and the Christian faith. This is often not congruent.

                                                          Sin For my parents it's not the physical state of having a hymen in place that's important, it's your actions and behaviour.

                                                          Better this way.

                                                          Foxies

                                                          No consensus about it,so?Not even a theory that is accepted by most scientists?

                                                          HHelen For the parents' convenience.

                                                          I agree,intact hymen is often more important for parents than for daughter.

                                                          LoonyMel Better to stick to the mindset than to the physical factor.

                                                          I agree.

                                                          Ines kneel in front of my man as symbol of my love...

                                                          After marriage only?

                                                          Jen

                                                          We have some voluntary male wearers,so,probably,they would wait.

                                                          Ines For example, the other day I read that with the law in the hand, is legal, in York, to kill a Scottish man if he has a bow. .. Obviously is a norm not very well suited to current times...

                                                          There is several laws such this one,some from old times,and some totally absurd,in almost all countries!😉

                                                                          Avery What then is the value of faith?

                                                                          Sorry, I don't understand you question. What are you trying to get at?

                                                                              Avery What then is the value of faith?

                                                                              Many would argue there isn't any.